×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Small Generation
2

Small Generation

Small Generation

(OP)
Hello,

I have the oppurtunity to purchase a piece of land that has a river "running through it".  At one point in the land the river has a steep change in head of about 20-30ft. In the 1960's the local utilities actually purchased the land to set up a small generating station (the foundation was poured).  Does anyone have any articles on performing feasibility studies for small hydro generation?  Also what is the smallest capacity I need to make it viable to connect to the grid (realizing every state/province has different issues)? Any suggestion are appreciated.

RE: Small Generation

Talk to the utility about size as well as other interconnection issues. You don't just "connect" to the grid; many issues have to be considered. You might also consider there must have been some reason the utility didn't put the generator in themselves!

RE: Small Generation

Hydro facilities such as what your talking about would likely require permits and such. Because we learned alot about environmental impacts, such facilities have not been built since the 60's. The only way you can put a generator around there is to not modify the flow of water (no dams, no alternate water flow). Your biggest challenge will be getting the appropriate permits.

RE: Small Generation

This may help- I jst happened to be looking at information
on hydro plants for another project & came across this- www.ieahydro.org- then there is a link to
www.small-hydro.com
I didn't see how much info was there - just made a note of the sites

RE: Small Generation

Hi,

I have some documentation here indicating:
-basicaly you would require a minimum head of approx. 8 feet.
- minimum water volume flow of 2m²/sec.

regards,

Danny

RE: Small Generation

Question to Buzz marked ///\\\
The only way you can put a generator around there is to not modify the flow of water (no dams, no alternate water flow).
///Please, how can there be no alternate water flow and no modification of the flow of water while the hydro-project is still realizable?\\\

RE: Small Generation

Jbartos, Thats my point.

His biggest obstacle will be getting the permit. Environmental impact studies will take as much time as the design and construction and will be hard to get because of the reputation of hydro plants. Yes they are one of the most efficient but they are also the most damaging to the environement and this is why no new ones have been built in the US for decades.
 

RE: Small Generation

I should add that since there is 'head' that it may be possible to do this without any further flooding upstream. However, there are still issues with fish passages and such.

RE: Small Generation

How big of a "river" is this?  While living in Rural new-york there were more than a few farms that used their streams running though their land for power generation.

If this is a 'medium' stream/crick with good-flow, I somehow doubt you are going to be attacked by zoning people.  Though, it sounds like this is a full-on river??

I have even seen a slick wood-cutting operation that was water-powered.  6-Foot circular saw blades are scary, BTW...

RE: Small Generation

Points you might consider:

In making your study watch for high versus low head hydro.
Low head are often un-attractive commercially because they tend to be more expensive, prone to storm damage and subject to trash accumulation problems.

I think you could have a technically viable solution as low as 5 kW.

I think induction generators - induction motor running about 3% about synchronous speed is a common solution. Very simple controls and would probably be ideal if you are permitted to connect.

RE: Small Generation

Buzzp: "they are also the most damaging to the environement" is a very broad statement.  Compared to what?  Dirtburners?  Really?

My understanding (as a foreign observer, yeah anuther dang furiner) on the reason no new projects are being done in US is more to do with politiks, something about not wanting hydro generation to be included as renewable generation because it makes all the others look so bad in comparison, &cetera.  And this (recent) "stuff" about GHG emissions from the reservoirs is about as scientific as (unmentionable).

Pechez les vaches.

RE: Small Generation

While head is one aspect the economic return is due to the energy and this is directly related to flow. You need to graph the flow through the year, the formula that relates flow/head to power is Generator Output [kW] = Flow [l\s] * Head [m] * 9.81 * Efficiency. Use a V notch weir to measue the flow, when you have a years readings convert to a flow duration curve ( ie histogram of flow and period, use this to size the turbine in rough terms, from there a good internet search should turn up approbriate turbines, cross flow, turgo are apropriate for low flows.  Many small hydros are now been promoted in places like New Zealnad due to their low environmental impact, and are economic if there is no large dam structures.

RE: Small Generation

regardless of everyones opinion on wether or not hydro electric systems are more or less benificial to the enviroment it still needs to be submitted to your local department of natural resources or whatever governing agency in your area handles such matters, these installations do alter the natural order of things and are usually very hard to get permits for, probably why the oringinal owner of the land abandoned it, if you procede without all the appropriate permits you could be facing very stiff penalties, people take fish and wildlife migration habits very seriously these days and I personnally believe it is well justified. Tarzan

RE: Small Generation

P.S. to tulum, I am sure you probably are regretting this post at times since it does stir up a lot of contraversy, I believe if you could design a small system possibly using an induction type generator and divert a small amount of the water without disturbing the natural flow of things you have a much better chance of getting it past the authorities
but a larger unit consisting of dammed up water or diverting large amounts of water will be next to immpossible. Tarzan

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources