AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
(OP)
For a highway bridge pier supporting simple spans on either side, should the pier be designed for one HS20 truck per lane (positioned right above the pier for maximum total reaction), or for the sum of the maximum reactions from the spans on two sides?
The latter implies two trucks being considered simultaneously, and AASHTO seems to require only one HS20 truck per lane on highway bridges. What is the generally accepted procedure, and what is the correct code interpretation?
Thanks for your help,
DG
The latter implies two trucks being considered simultaneously, and AASHTO seems to require only one HS20 truck per lane on highway bridges. What is the generally accepted procedure, and what is the correct code interpretation?
Thanks for your help,
DG





RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Incidentally, using AASHTO you can't assume that the load cases which maximum superstructure stress will also be the load cases which provide max substructure stress. You have to evaluate them seperately or at least see if the superstructure case impacts the substructure the same way.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
If the super structure is continuous over the pierwall, then at least my version of AASHTO, says one truck per lane.
There is no HS20 truck.
This is not a pipe.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Multi-span bridges continue to be constructed today due to support settlement issues and stress reversal issues that are common with railroad structures.
Also, please keep in mind that you can one truck per lane and that each lane is 10 or 12 feet wide. As such, you can't really place a two 10 foot wide vehicles in a single lane. However, you can have multiple lanes loaded and there is a reduction for that case in AASHTO.
At the same time, you can have more than one truck in a single lane as well, not side-by-side, but end to end. This is what the lane load is intended to achieve.
KOODI
There is a HS20 truck but it is a design vehicle intended to produce maximum stresses which by way of the special automotive specifications cannot be reproduced for obvious reasons.
If it's not a pipe, then what is it?
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
About the end-to-end trucks. As you say, the lane loading is intended to cover that possibility. So, assuming one is considering the lane loading case, as required by AASHTO, then does one additionally look at the HS20 trucks back to back in each lane?. If so, what would be the minimum spacing between the front axle of the one and the back axle of the other?
Thanks for your responses.
Thank you too, Koodi.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
The AASHTO lane load is 640 #/ft (for HS20 design vehicle) with one or two additional point loads applied when necessary to effect the maximum stress.
The uniform distributed loading takes into account the back to back nature of the vehicles and so the axle spacing etc is irrelevant for this case.
The point loads are applied:
One point load applied for reactions, shear and positive moment investigations.
Two point loads applied for maximum negative moments in continuous span bridges.
For the case of actual truck loading the axle spacing is taken to be 14'.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
More improbable is a truck train consisting of the same overloaded trucks following one another 14 ft behind--fast enough that impact needs to be accounted for--I hope the brakes are fair.
Heh QSHAKE,
are you saying there is a Santa Claus?
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
To summarize, the maximum reaction on the pier beam should be computed by considering, in each lane, the larger of a)lane load of 640 lb/ft (times tributary length) plus the appropriate concentrated load (one load only on the centerline of the pier beam); and b)one HS20 truck placed to produce maximum (total) reaction on the beam.
Impact and multiple lane reduction to be applied per AASHTO.
Does that sound right to everyone?
Thanks
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Moreover, the lane load does represent multiple trucks but end-to-end and not side-by-side. Read the post.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Therefore, for the original posted question, I would place a truck load on each adjacent simple span to determine the max reaction at the pier due to "truck loads" as Qshake replied. Lane loads may still control.
The specs (3.7.1.1)also state that Lane Loads are intended to be "equivalent to truck trains" (i.e. one truck followed by another, followed by another...)
Once you have determined the max. reaction due to one truck or lane load, then you need to place 12' lanes along the pier, placing the live load in each lane (reducing as allowed by spec 3.12). If you are designing the pier without the benefit of software that generates the live load/lane variations, I have conservatively used the max. reaction at a bearing and applied to pier cap in a way that maximized positive moment between columns (one load case) and maximized negative moment over columns (another load case).
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
If its only one truck per lane for continuous spans, then why not for simple spans? How does the loading know whether the structure is simple or continuous?
If we had a pier that was designed to support 2 continuous spans of 75', and the spans needed replacement, going by this interpretation we wouldn't be able to replace them with simple spans, even of lesser span - the pier design wouldn't work.
The max. moment and shear tables (App.A) provided in the AASHTO have used only one truck no matter how long the span, even 300ft.
If 75' spans are considered, the max. reaction each side is 63.1 kips. If the max.reaction on both spans can occur simultaneously, that is 2 trucks in each lane, and that makes the reaction at the pier 126.2kips. For lane loading its only 74.0 kips (0.64x75 + 26.0), almost half.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Usually for the span lengths where simple spans are economical truck controls. Use impact based on the average span length according to AASHTO. Check to see if the owner has special considerations in addition to AASHTO, like a special truck or a additional impact (Virginia DOT requires special loading for pier cap overhangs)
Place load in all lanes or any combination of lanes to maximize the load you are designing for, take reductions for 3 or more lanes as directed by AASHTO.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
No one in the posts above are stating or inferring that two trucks per lane should be used! Where are you getting that from?
Not only is ROWE's post on point, ROWE backs up the statements with the correct AASHTO specifications.
The usual methodology for live load application is to:
1. Apply the appropriate truck loading (usually always controls (shear and moment) on short-medium spans and reactions for same)
2. Apply the appropriate lane loading (since lane loads will control in certain areas depending on span lengths)
3. Apply other design loading as necessary - this means Alternate Military for interstates and not rating trucks.
4. Use the maximums of 1, 2 and 3 to design various parts of the bridge superstructre.
It is clear that you don't design bridges for a living and you should consult with someone in your office who does. The travelling public deserves safe bridges and structures.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
I always make sure the bridge is continuous for live load and then there is not question regarding the substructure design. I think we all agree that AASHTO states that one truck is run across the bridge but the lane load can be discontinuous. For the superstructure design you obviously have to apply the truck to each span.
AASHTO 3.11.4 states that for continuous spans only one truck shall be considered on the structure but I'm not so sure it implies that this is different for simple spans but I don't know.
If I run one of my bridge girder design programs that allows multiple simple spans it is going to give reactions at the support based on a truck in each span. One way to handle it would be to average the reactions to the sub but make sure the eccentric moment from unbalanced spans is accounted for.
I asked the principle of our firm over structures if he had ever designed a multi-span bridge with simple spans and he had but considered the bridge continuous for live load even though it wasn't (for the substructure design only).
Interesting... I'd be interested in other opinions on this. Prestressed-precast bridges would be the obvious example along with railroad bridges. What's the standard of practice?
Everyone have a Merry Christmas,
MikeD
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
By the way, qshake, I do not design bridges for a living, but I think your personal remarks were unwarranted, and I have a message for you in return : the tax-paying public deserves their money to be efficiently utilized by engineers who understand and know what they're doing. Thats what we're doing here.
Happy holidays.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
My apologies if I offended you. My point is, based on experience in this forum for a couple of years, that some users arrive at this site as a "cure-all" so-to-speak of whatever ails them or to obtain a "black and white" answer for what is likely to be a gray area at best. Obviously, not knowing what your background is and what you're likely to do with the information gleened from this site, I was strongly pointing out that, as engineers, we must have the public at heart and in our minds when designing infrastructure elements.
I agree with your statement as well. What concerns me is that there is no one else where you work that has the experience and knowledge (as the other forum members do) necessary to check your work and provide a valuable source of experience for you.
It was not meant as a personal attack on you.
Regards,
Qshake
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
I appreciate and accept your clarification, and that you meant well; and there may even be people here who need and have the time for your advice on ethics, but I only visit this website for serious technical discussion, and to learn from the technical knowledge others may have.
So shall we get back to technical?
Do you know of any reference that directly addresses this particular issue?
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
The term "one truck per lane" refers to the to the longitudinal direction or "end to end" (NOT side by side).
AASHTO is specific in section 3.11.4 when stating that, FOR CONTINUOUS SPANS, one truck load per lane shall be considered ON THE STRUCTURE (therefore, KOODI's first post is correct because he qualifies it with "continuous" spans. From my point of view, the omitting of simple spans in the statement implies that as many truck loads (aka axle loads) shall be placed ALONG a 12 foot lane (in the longitudinal direction) to produce the maximum stress for whatever component you're designing.
AASHTO 3.6 addresses Traffic Lanes and basically specifies that you don't put more than one truck or lane load within a 12' lane WITH REGARD TO THE TRANSVERSE DIRECTION (i.e. if you have a 35'-11" roadway width, you can only place two 12' lanes on the roadway and each truck or lane load must be within their respective 12' wide lane.
KOODI's second post seems a little misleading (sorry KOODI). AASHTO states that LANE LOADS EQUAL TRUCK TRAINS (multiple trucks though not necessarily multiple HS20 loads)
however, the reduction for multiple lanes loaded is to account for the improbability of truck/lane loads side by side AT THE SAME LOCATION (longitudinally) THAT PRODUCES MAXIMUM STRESS IN THE COMPONENT - not just "on the bridge".
In conclusion, I would reiterate that you should place a truck load in each adjacent span, as close to the pier as possible, to determine the max reaction on the pier due to truck loads.
Also, with regard to ANDYZ's post, you would only use an impact coefficient based upon average span lengths of adjacent spans if the structure was continuous, otherwise, use individual impact coeff. based upon the span length of the individual simple span length.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Your para 2 statement - ("as many truck loads (aka axle loads) shall be placed ALONG a 12 foot lane (in the longitudinal direction) to produce the maximum stress for whatever component you're designing.") - doesn't gel with AASHTO max. moment and shear tables (App.A).
In the tables AASHTO have used only one truck no matter how long the span, even 300ft.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
You can't go back to the simple span tables when rebutting simply because they are looking at one simple span not two or more. So that arguement doesn't hold water.
A rear axle placed on the bearing of the second span (of a two span bridge) at a common pier and the front axle of a truck placed as close to the first truck in the first span (of a two span bridge) will give the maximum reaction to the pier. That is it, plain and simple.
R M F R M F
_______|__|__| |__|__|_____________
^ ^ ^ ^
common
pier
The sketch above shows the placement of two trucks for maximum loading. R = rear axle, M = middle axle and F= front axle. Each truck is in the same lane, just bumper to bumper.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
It's probable that, for those simple spans in the AASHTO table that can fit two truck loads (i.e. more than three axle loads) within the span, the lane load governs - thereby eliminating the need to put more than 1 truck load on one simple span.
One other suggestion: Why not make the deck spans continuous? It would lower the max. positive moments and eliminate a deck joint (which requires maintenance and affects rideability).
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Consider a 200ft span. More than one truck could theoretically fit onto this span. Here are the max. moments:
One HS20 truck: 3322 k.ft
Lane loading : 4100 k.ft
Two HS20 trucks : 5855 k.ft
By AASHTO table : 4100 k.ft
Hence it is clear that the AASHTO table has considered only one truck per lane.
We could make the spans continuous, but say we had one mile of bridge deck. We would have to place expansion joints at some piers, and then have to decide how to figure the max reactions at those piers.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Whatever Qshake says, he is right.(I think he knows everything.)
I came to this forum about 3 years ago to ask some question about the bridge design. At that time I was an entry-level bridge designer. He answered my question in a good way. I believe ROWE did good job here too. I now have CA PE with 3 years pure bridge design experience.
I think dgidwani's question is very easy. Let me answer his question if Qshake and ROWE do not mind.
Problem: Simple spans each side on top of pier. I think the question is about the design of substructure, not superstructure. (I have never seen two simple span each side on the pier for any live load.(except for the constuction live load) This is not economical design.) BTW, to design this problem, First of all, a truck(whatever truck, manual says) has to be loaded for the max. Reaction at one side. The total reaction should be double to obtain the max pier reaction and times number of lane. Second, lane load should be loaded on a span and make it double to obtain the pier reaction. Third, use whatever the max is. If the span is long, lane load normally govern.
However, you must also calculate lateral load due to the bearing pad deflection from R+S+T(this is huge force if the bearing pad has a wide surface area and thickness.) and any other lateral load, wind or seismic etc. Actually, obtaining axial load is not that critical for pier design from my experience. U can even guess the axial load from LL(because its load is smaller than DL) and use the lateral analysis to design the substructure.
The code can't explain all the design situation. If I were the bridge designer for this problem, even though there is no reference for LL, I would do what I wrote above.
Anyway, happy NEW year Qshake and ROWE. I hope I see you here next year too. I still have many questions for you guys.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
Is this procedure outlined in the manual you're referring to? Could you please share the reference information for the manual.
I don't have a problem with conservative approaches. But that wasn't my question. I'm just trying to see if anyone can tell me exactly what the code wants us to do in such a situation, and why; and if theres a reference describing it.
Thanks.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
If there was a code prescription for this problem we would have written it by now.
The best we can do it point to article 3.11.2 and give you our interpretation. Please note that article calls for the engineer to provide a loading that "produces the maximum stress".
We've told you what we would do and yjung has also provided a viable alternate as well.
yjung, thank you for the kind words. I don't know as much as I would like and probably much less than I should. But after all the years it nice to be able to help others. Much happiness in the new year.
Qshake
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
hi. i am bridgedesigner.
for vertical loads case, aashto some years ago managed, to accomodate trucks in the lanes, if you use hs20, you should know it dimension axis ti axis, the ones that cause the highest reactions, moments, or what you are analyzing for. there was another consideration, using equivalent load, those were an uniform load plus one vertical load for moment or for shear or reaction. you should compare the effects of accomodate the trucks by lane, taking care of number of lanes for %reduction, and compare with equivalent loads, that you should use by lane and that consider the lane totally loaded by the model truck you are considering. i hope this is useful to you. qshake, know a lot.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
you are correct concerning AASHTO's placing ONE truck on a simple span to determine the "Truck" load reaction. More than one truck on the span will be idealized by the "Lane" (aka "truck train") load.
Admitting my error however, does not preclude the application of one "truck" load on each adjacent SIMPLE span to determine the max reaction at the common pier due to "truck" loading.
RE: AASHTO loading interpretation for Pier design
...design tandem + lane load
...design truck w/variable axle spacing + lane load
...at the interior piers, 2 design trucks + lane load at the multiple lane factor of 0.90
We normall use two trucks (both headed in the same direction) w/14' axle spacing and vary the spacing between the trucks to obtain the maximum loadings.
A good discussion. But with Halloween fast approaching, we all should be looking forward to the GREAT PUMPKIN.
Best, Tincan.