I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
(OP)
Analyzer Building, project what I started a some time ago, provides better ventilation system and reduction of classified area from Division 2 Group B to Division 2 Group D. Building is very old with some existing equipment as "general purpose equipment" ( lighting, fans) i.e. with unclassified equipment inside hazardous classified zone.
I have to STAMP this project as P.Eng. but I am refusing.
Please your comments !
I have to STAMP this project as P.Eng. but I am refusing.
Please your comments !





RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
That what I want to do is to approve new changes ( better ventilation system) but the risk still exists, ignition source still exists based on existing equipment not provided for classified area.
I found that existing ANALYZER BUILDING is in service, but no stamped by P.Eng. before.
IF I STAMP NEW CHANGES ( GOOD VENTILATION ) and specify that a some step risk still exists ( unproper equipment)and that I am not verifying existing situation, can I be responsible for the Potential Hazards.
Thanks.
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
Think of it from the perspective of "what can I do to protect the public?" If that question leads you to the conclusion that if you stamp, then the public will be unnecessarily put at risk, then the decision is clear.
At the end of the day you have to be able to know that you have done everything you could to protect the public, including possibly losing your job. That outcome is not very likely, but you have to be prepared to defend your position to that level. If there still exists an unnecessary risk it is not acceptable.
Please let us know how it turns out.
Dave
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
“I will not henceforth suffer or pass, or be privy to the passing of, Bad Workmanship or Faulty Material in aught that concerns my works before men as an Engineer …”
Your duty is clear, not only should you not seal the drawing but take whatever steps are necessary to prevent this facility from being a danger to the public.
The public is defined here as everyone who may be at risk by entering the facility, whose property is at risk and includes the owners who are asking you to seal something that they may know as substandard.
Failure to take whatever necessary steps to protect the public could and rightfully should result in your PE status being in jeopardy.
I would start by documenting all the deficiencies in the project, including references to which portion of what code are violated and see where that takes you. Document every conversation you have with regarding this issue.
You will want to keep copies of this documentation in a safe place away from the workplace.
If that involves whistle blowing then start blowing. If it costs you your job then start looking for another.
You may not be an employed engineer but you will still be an engineer.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
When we stamp a modification to an existing design, we are now taking ownership of the ENTIRE design. This means the original design, any previous document/undocumented modifications, and the existing modification. This is the case unless you can demonstrate that the modification in no way alters the function/capabilities of the original design. Then you better have that well documented.
As a licensed engineer, the responsibility is on you to ensure that you have taken all reasonable steps to safeguard the public. If you think a system that interfaces with yours still presents an unacceptable risk to public safety, document this, and do not sign the drawings. If the system that interfaces with yours is still per code, then document this, and seal the drawing.
Regards,
jetmaker
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
Good Luck
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
The "clouds" on a drawing only show which part you modified. Some of the work you may have to do as part of your design may require you to look at the complete system. You cannot for example do a short circut calculation without looking at the entire system. Your stamp says what you have done is safe when considered as part of the entire system.
If you discover an error it's up to you to point it out, go on record that it needs to be fixed and don't sign or stamp anything untill that fix is going to happen.
I have done exactly that when I found the utility had replaced a transformer. The availabel fault current went wany up and no one told the owner. There was no way to get around replacing a switchboard and some panels ( none of which was in the scope of what I was originally doing).
The thing to do when in doubt is apply the "Lawyer Test".
1.) You know the facillity is wrong. You burry your head in the sand and stamp the drawing.
2.) The place blows up killing several people.
3.) Assuming you have enough money to make it worth their while Lawyers will decend on you like buzzards on a dead cow.
4.) In some areas and circumstances you may face more than a civil liability, You could go to jail.
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
If you have to ask others for opinions on how to do your job, you might want to think about another line of work.
If you don't understand the role of having a PE license, then give the license up.
That's just my opinion.
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
RE: I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE . . .
An "approved" ventilation system may create a more hazardous condition. For instance, it could pull explosive vapor across some hot, unapproved, device that wasn't exposed to (enough of) the vapor prior to the installation of the ventilation system.
I was intimidated into signing something once I didn't check thoroughly, and it came back. Luckily, I just signed it as checker, not as a PE, and it wasn't anything major. I will not take that chance again. I'd rather my job be terminated.
. . . Steve