Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
(OP)
Hi dear engineer friends,
I've got my BS in Electrical and Control Engineering (5 year course) from one of the best non-US (from Asia) accredited university in the world with an average of 76%. I used to work (part time and contract) in an Automotive supplying parts company for four years during the BS degree. After the Uni, I continued to work with them for one year more (full time) and then moved to England to study Master in Automotive Engineering. I designed and made some devices from concept to production, each for the first time in my country.
Now I almost finished my Master in Automotive Engineering and have been looking for a proper job for more than 7-8 months. Although my background was totally different from the MSc course, and English was not my mother tongue, but I managed to take a distinction degree with an average of 78% and ranked first in the department.
Now I'm an automotive electronics embedded system designer (very good experience), a programmer, Electronics guy, a good control and instrumentation guy (some experience), a bit mechanical and some automotive (no practical experience though) and very strong mathematics and physics are on the top of all that.
I don't say I did something exceptional, by no means. But I was at least better than average. No company even asked me for even a simple interview. Could anybody tell me what's wrong with me (or the companies)? What else could a 25 yaer graduate student have done? I mainly applied for automotive electronics companies, big and small. I see some people working in some companies in high rank engineering positions (and I worked with them in some projects) and can swear that I am a better engineer, but I'm here at home spending money and they are at work making money!!
Thanks for reading this long, sad story of mine.
Cheers
SAEED
I've got my BS in Electrical and Control Engineering (5 year course) from one of the best non-US (from Asia) accredited university in the world with an average of 76%. I used to work (part time and contract) in an Automotive supplying parts company for four years during the BS degree. After the Uni, I continued to work with them for one year more (full time) and then moved to England to study Master in Automotive Engineering. I designed and made some devices from concept to production, each for the first time in my country.
Now I almost finished my Master in Automotive Engineering and have been looking for a proper job for more than 7-8 months. Although my background was totally different from the MSc course, and English was not my mother tongue, but I managed to take a distinction degree with an average of 78% and ranked first in the department.
Now I'm an automotive electronics embedded system designer (very good experience), a programmer, Electronics guy, a good control and instrumentation guy (some experience), a bit mechanical and some automotive (no practical experience though) and very strong mathematics and physics are on the top of all that.
I don't say I did something exceptional, by no means. But I was at least better than average. No company even asked me for even a simple interview. Could anybody tell me what's wrong with me (or the companies)? What else could a 25 yaer graduate student have done? I mainly applied for automotive electronics companies, big and small. I see some people working in some companies in high rank engineering positions (and I worked with them in some projects) and can swear that I am a better engineer, but I'm here at home spending money and they are at work making money!!
Thanks for reading this long, sad story of mine.
Cheers
SAEED





RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
There was a survey in The Australian the other day. The article was pushing the benefits of higher degrees. They listed the starting salary by degree type and level. Engineering was the only discipline where the additional degrees resulted in a drop in starting salary. On the other hand I agree that in your position I would have gone for the Masters. Have you checked with the IMechE or IEE to see if your qualifications are now sufficient for Chartership?
Incidentally, if you seriously think you are a better engineer than someone who has more experience than you, perhaps that attitude may be part of the issue. It is very nice to be technically brilliant, but a lot of an engineer's effectiveness comes from other attributes.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Try a different approach to finding work. Applying for jobs through through newspaper adverts isn't too successful as a lot of companies don't even advertise. Do your research on companies, find the departmental manager's name, write and then phone. Even if they can't offer you a job they might know of other places where there will be opportunites. It's all a matter of luck and increasing your odds.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I'm quit sure about IEEE and my BSc but don't have any idea about IMechE. How can I check it and what is the procedure to be a chartered engineer? thanks for any help.
Thanks Corus, I haven't tried that one, it should be a good idea. But do managers care about the letters from unknown sources at all?
Pablo, that's right. I've gotta be more patient but I'm running out of time. I cannot stay in the UK for a long time as I'm from a visa country and they don't extend my visa for sitting here and looking for job.
And please somebody tell me if this "Equal Opportunity" is something for show off or companies really don't care where you are from and other things (specially in the UK)?
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
-OR-
Somehow "forget" to mention your masters degree on your CV and resume when applying for entry level positions. I have seen this done. Later, when you have more experience, your masters will not be an encumberance.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Actually I've got an admission to study PhD in Intelligent Control and Transportation Safety in University of George Washington. If I can take the visa I can start the course, a 5 year :( one, in January.
Supervisor said there will be a big chance to take a scholarship as well. BUT I'm scared that if this PhD makes everything worse, over-over qualified! I can hide this one year MSC in my CV, but not that 5 year PhD. Besides, I'll have a student life upto 30. Is there any good chance in states for a PhD qualified? Do the benefits worth to study more 5 years?
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Basically, I see it as two choices as I outlined previously.
I recently had the opportunity to help my boss interview candidates for a position parallel to mine. Very enlightening experience. In the future, I will definitely shorten my resume to include ONLY those points of most interest to specific employers, though leave some indication that there is more to discuss.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Check the IMechE web site or phone them up in London to enquire about membership.
Managers do read cold-calling letters and more importantly they do answer the phone. A letter with a promise to call in a week is a good way to find about jobs. Personnel, or Human Resource people don't read them however. Some do actually keep your CV on file, though I've never had a company ask if I was available some time later. The companies that keep your CV on file are generally those that don't need to advertise, they already have lots of people writing in.
Equal opportunities does exist in the UK and I've found that they generally look more favourably on those from Asia, especially the far east, as being more conscientious. Their only concern is the language however.
With a Masters degree I'd be looking at research rather than general engineering where most people would be afraid to hire you in case you were cleverer than them. Personally I wouldn't worry about chartered status as your Masters degree shows you have that 'extra' qualification that chartered offers. Perhaps think about that after you've found work and have built up some practical experience. I'd mention it on your CV that you're seeking chartered status, it's something to talk about at the interview.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Corus- I'll check IMechE for sure and thanks for the reply.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Is this professionally done, free of grammatical errors and typo’s? Is it in the requested electronic format is electronic or printed on high quality paper if on hard copy?
One mistake is to print on non-standard paper sizes or to bind the resume. This makes it difficult for the HR types to handle in a stack of standard page sizes. The notice that this gets you is not favourable.
Does it present you in a favourable light, highlighting your accomplishments in a manner that indicates that you understand that you are long on education and short on experience?
If you want some constructive criticism on thee documents, follow the link in my signature line and you can send them to me by e-mail and I’ll have a look at them and offer any comments.
You can call the HR departments at firms where you have applied to see why you are unsuccessful in getting interviews. Most HR types will at least give you some pointers. It may be that there is no fit between your skills and their needs right now and they understand that its best to have good relations in case your skills are needed in the future.
There is a lot of job-hunting advice out there. The best I can give is to find a method that you feel comfortable with. If you follow an aggressive job search style and you are a more laid back type (or the reverse) then you will only succeed in finding jobs that want aggressive types and you will not be a good fit to that sort of position.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I realy appreciate your help and attention.
Cheers
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I dont beleive in writing individual applications for each position you seek (at least not when looking for the first job). I found that with my perfected application i got called to nterviews and finally I got the job.
Writing the application is just for getting to an interview - not to get the job.
Try setting up a template and then change wordings and see if that work. When you finally do get called for an interview stick to that!
Best regards
Morten
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I must thank Rick for his help and giving a very long descriptive advice on my CV. I'm realy happy to have such support from somebody that has never seen me. Good luck and wish you all the best.
Thanks for other friends' support as well, I felt that it was me alone experiencing such a problem. When I hear that it's common I can move forward more easily, a common pain is more tolerable :).
And does anybody have any idea about the difference of PhD and D.Sc. ? Thanx
Cheers
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Maui
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I tried to find a job as I said before. I don't wanna go back to my country (long term speaking) as there is no way to improve there. I cannot live and remain here in the UK without a job and the only way to get into states is go for a PhD. I donno where you are from but it does matter. If I were an American Citizen, I would never go for a DSc or a PhD. I would go for a job and at the end of the day I would have found a job. But now, to live and remain in the west world it seems that I have to SPEND 5 more years of my life to (may be)ACHIEVE what an american has. Life is not fair always and sometimes just dictates you what you've gotta do. If i can't find a job here, I've gotta move there to see what's happening next. I know it's the most enjoyable time in my life BUT I enjoy studying as well ( I have to :) ).
Cheers
You can live in your car, but you can't drive your House!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Generally you will need a job in Canada. A good job board for engineering jobs is www.careerowl.ca
Good luck
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Can I avail your help in getting my resume analyzed? Not exactly now, but when I want to make a move. (Btw I work in a pharmaceutical company and my experience is mostly in this field).
Regards,
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I need 75 points to be considered for Immigration to Canada and I have 67-8 points right now. If I have a job offer in Canada I can come there and apply for immigration as it adds 10-15 more points to me. I should appretiate the site you introduced for finding a job.
I should go through that site and apply. EVEN if the company doesn't employ me after I enter Canada, I can take my immigration. This job offer is just to show the Canadian Government that my profession is required in Canada and that company doesn't HAVE TO employ me after I enter Canada. This might make the job hunting easier, coz the employer doesn't feel any responsibility to employ me.
Anyhow thanks again for your all helps.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
You can send me your resume for a critique. I’m kind of swamped so don’t expect to get it back for a couple of weeks.
Zimbali
The automotive industry in Canada is in the area called the Niagara Peninsula. This is the area on the north side of Lake Ontario (the eastern most of the Great Lakes). A lot of automobile work is concentrated in Windsor, just across the border from Detroit.
Summers there are hot and humid, winters are mild (by my standards) expect a lot of snow and coldest about –20C. (I live in the prairie’s 100 kms north of the US border and half way between the costs. Winters here can get –30 to –40 C.)
Good luck
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Although you have a MS in automotive, Zimbali, your BS is electrical, and that means that you can look beyond the Toronto monster city and find employment in many cities across Canada. Don't limit your search, even though you may find the majority of leads do come from Toronto.
By the way, summers in Calgary are NOT hot NOR humid, and in the winter it usually doesn't get very cold except for a few days at a stretch.
STF
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
-Assess how many applications you have sent. 1 interview from 30 applications is good in the UK being non-british.
-Due to the increased security measures in the english speaking nations since Sep.11. combined with the economic crisis in the UK finding a job since is extremely difficult. You should consider moving country or be patient. Don't give up! You can observe some more relaxed atmosphere in the past few months.
-Did you send the application for the right positions? Isn't your target group too narrow?
gsc
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I spent last summer in Calgary and it snowed in Aug.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
THE method of getting into automotive jobs in the UK is by using recruitment agencies for example www.jonlee.co.uk as most Auto' Companies have limited HR personnel.
The current situation is of ongoing cut-backs in the UK with more jobs being contracted-out to temporary contractors. This can be a good way of getting into the company, seeing if you like it/people and then applying for jobs internally advertised. In your situation it may suit you as it gives you the flexibility to "move on" when you get itchy feet but, gives you some hard cash whilst planning your future.
Best of luck,
John.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I found it works best to avoid applying to HR departments (as they find this whole work permit thing a big hassle) and instead write directly to the technical people within the companies you want to work for. They are more likely to appreciate your qualifications and not worry about whether you need a work permit. Doing this, I then got interviews and offers! (And I think having a PhD helped me as it made it easier for the companies to make the case that I was uniquely qualified).
Good luck!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I'd applied to LOTUS and e-mailed my CV almost 2 months ago and there was no answer from them. I sent an email 2 days ago and asked about the process of application and they replied: "We've never recieved your CV, please send us your CV that we can forward it to the manager, sorry about any inconvinience." !!
Moral of the story: Never wait too long and ask for the process of application, not once but so many times!
Cheers
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
How about HVAC jobs in Canada? I have pretty sound knowledge and experience in HVAC design for clean rooms and commericial buildings.
BTY could i ask you to comment my CV organization?
sincerely
GA
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I cannot imagine how the HR/screening staff must feel.
Having to tell very good candidates that they did not make the cut?
You are young. Ironically, some of the things that get you the second and third interview are not the education or the part-time/coop experience. Screw the job thing for a couple of months and do some traveling-do some cliff diving or climb a mountain or something. Then, use that story in your interviews! I gaurantee they will remember you, and you will get the second interview.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Look at the larger picture. There are many suppliers to auto manufacturers who also need engineers for their products. You could also look for an entry level job on a racing team or organization. Maybe not much money but great experience and looks good on the resume. Also, see if the are professional organizations you could join as a student to begin networking to find managers looking for your qualifications. List experience on resume as a benefit to employer list: saved money by ...; increased productivity by ...; improved quality by ...; in other words by accomplishment rather than by duties.
Good Luck!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
He resolved this finally by saying, "Look, show me a problem you have, and if i solve it, give me the job."
They showed him, he solved it and he got the job. He didn't keep it long though since it gave him experince and a way round taht particular Catch 22.
But other correspondents may be right, having a Doctorate puts you in a different class. I don't know what that equates to but let's just say he could have spent all those years of study for his doctorate working (if he could have got the job) and be no where near as advanced in the company as he is now.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I was just reading this post and I was curious to know how your job search is going. Did you get interviews after modifying your CV with Rick's help. Keep us posted.
Coka
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Actually it helped a lot. I heared from two companies for interview after those changes. I didn't keep on asking them after their contact as I had decided to go back to my country and do my own business. Just for your interest, I applied for three engineering jobs in the UK and I said that I had work permission in the UK and I was contacted in less than 24 hours for two of them. I just wanted to try what would have happened if I were a citizen... :(, discrimination is still everywhere but it's not as immediatley VISIBALE as it used to be 30-40 years ago.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Don't get discouraged. There is a lot of imigrants out there, me being one of them, and I am 25 years old too. I happened to get my B.Eng in Canada and I got my job 4 months after getting my diploma, but I have a lot of friends that are still looking for one. The times are not the best to get a job but you can't put your hands down.
Good luck!
Coka
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Times are still tough all over; we just laid off some VERY senior people.
One thing that you MUST do is to STAY POSITIVE. You have to believe in yourself and believe that you can bring a positive benefit to the companies you interview at. Be persistent, but don't be a pest. It's difficult to gauge where your behavior lies, but I've seen applicants flame out and turn a somewhat positive situation into a complete turndown.
Good luck..
TTFN
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
"Actually it helped a lot. I heared from two companies for interview after those changes."
Now that you have overcome the first hurdle and are getting interviews, consider buying one or two good books on interviewing. If you read these and prepare adequately, they really help you anticipate questions and generally make you more comfortable in the interview. There is nothing worse than being caught offgaurd with a question and not knowing how to respond. The also help you emphasize your strenghts and generally stand out above other applicants.
I utilized this technique during a past job search, and it made all the difference in the world. After several unsuccessful interviews, I landed a great job with the first interview I had after studying an interview book.
Good luck.
Tuna
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Please re-write your resume with these important factors. Otherwise, U.S. companies will think that you graduated with a "C".
I volunteer with The University of Chicago, Graduate Division and coach grad students with Master's Degrees on resumes and interview preparation. I am from Asia and had to completely change my method of presentation so that the Western world would understand my qualifications and experience. If I can help you out (no charge), please reply and include an e-mail address or some other means of contact.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Thanks all for your replies.
IRStuff: In the Uk, taking work permit for somebody with MSc qualification ( and especially with electronics and IT background)is a matter of few days time and a letter to the Home Office. The company can do it with a very low charge and usually there is not a big problem. I don't know about the US and Canada, but I feel to be different as I'm not from the EU here in the UK and it makes it more difficult to find a job.
The other thing that I may say is that I applied for US visa 4 months ago for a PhD course with a full fellowship and predefined projects. I haven't heared from the embassy since then and they just say " because you come from those 7 CERTAIN NATIONALITIES your visa process could take a very long time and we cannot estimate". That's why I decided to go back to my country and start my own business and be a BIG FISH, get BIGGER and in the mean time apply for skilled migration to Canada. I may then have EQUALER rights.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Some tough years but he made his education and his natural ability pay off, which is just as well because once earning he was then able to help his brother in the UK start his own business and now is doing the same for me!
If you think life is tough at the begining of your career, it can be more so when you have stacked a few years in because the biggest phobia many companies have is not race or religion but age. I would equate age with experience but many employers do not make this distinction.
For me the choice was do nothing or start my own business. I have to say that i have enjoyed six months of no job (and few opportunities) because i used that time to do some short college courses in business studies.
Sure, there is discrimination in the world.
But the message that seems to come through is to make sure you've got everything else lined up before that can be an excuse.
One of the first things i discovered is that i couldn't write a Cv to save my life. Rambling (you could guess that one), irrelevant, are just a couple of the comments.
For some reason lots of HR department never acknowledge job applications. I have no idea why. Common courtesy would suggest that a computerised response is not a problem.
One of the things they never teach you at college or university is how to get a job.
Consultants will advise you not to give unnecessary details. Don't put your age on the application, don't put your current salary. Don't put your nationality or race or religion. Do put your qualifications and experience where relevant. If you have more qualifications than the job calls for, just don't mention them.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
In the US, it can be a little harder, because you need to show that you are unable to fill the position with the existing labor pool. Usually, companies reserve that effort for people they really like or want to keep.
TTFN
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
IRStuff: It's supposed to be the same here in the UK and they should show that there is nobody can do the job in the REGION; but it's much easier to feel the lack of engineering potentials here in the UK (comparing to the States) and it ends up to an easy process for people willing to employ postgraduate staff.
Cheers
You can live in your car, but you can't drive your House!
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
I just read through this posting and decided to find out how your business is coming along?
I am in a similar predicament although I reside in Canada.
I'll be graduating with a MSc in Electrical with emphasis on Instrumentation and Control. I've been working as a full time Technical Analyst at a big IT company while completing my studies.
I've started the job application process and have made a note of all the advice that was given to you but it will be a long rough road ahead. I'll have to be competing with too many qualified unemployed engineers for that first interview.
I also thought of starting a business but you pretty much need experience and a client base. How does one get a client base without a decent portfolio? How did you get one? What is your business all about?
Klaus
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Just read your post here and the other thread you started.
Be very careful about starting your own business with experience. Would you be able to get liability insurance?
Are you a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer? This might lead to more - and better paying - job opportunities than your M.Sc. (it does at my company, our Systems Administrator is one of the highest paid employees).
I wish you good luck with your job search, but hold on to your present job. You are trying to enter engineering at a time when many people are trying to leave it.
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
Sorry for my typo, I meant to write:
"Be very careful about starting your own business with NO experience."
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
> youth -- while generally a taboo subject, it's certainly recognized that older engineer will hit a retirement limit sooner than a young engineer
> tabula rasa -- a young engineer hasn't been corrupted (hopefully) by poor habits. This would also be coupled with adaptability, which is very important in a shrinking workforce.
> not yet pidgeon-holed or overly specialized -- by a similar token to the above, a young engineer is less likely to be so specialized that they can't take on something that's not directly in their discipline. Stress your desire and capability to learn new things and willingness to take on problems outside of your discipline. It's a double-edged sword, though, since some employers prefer highly specialized employees.
> less likely to be burned out -- your youthful enthusiam should be made apparent to your prospective employer.
TTFN
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!
You said,
'Personally I wouldn't worry about chartered status as your Masters degree shows you have that 'extra' qualification that chartered offers'.
I disagree with this statement. I have recently become chartered with IMechE and most of the questions they asked me at the interview were about my level of experience and responsibility. Qualifications were not mentioned at all.
An acquaintance of mine had his application rejected and he had a PhD. The entry-level qualification for new graduates is an Msc.
In my opinion it’s very hard to judge the engineering ability of someone you don’t know and have never worked with based on someone’s academic qualifications. Getting chartered shows employers that you have the relevant experience as well as academic qualifications.
I have heard many engineers complain about the status of engineering when compared with other professions. If engineers themselves see no value in becoming chartered then maybe this is why the general public don’t know the difference between a mechanical engineer and a motor mechanic?
RE: Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...!