Tail plane design
Tail plane design
(OP)
Aircraft A is built as it usually would be. However, it then has to be housed in a low hanger and the vertical tail pushes its height over the height of the hanger. Could engineers remove a section of the tail and re-position it under the rear fuselage or would this severely affect the planes stability? If the vertical tail could be changed like this, would any other parts of the plane have to be modified to compensate?
Thanks in advance
K.Clapham
Thanks in advance
K.Clapham





RE: Tail plane design
Jack up the nose.
Build a new hangar.
Playing musical chairs with the tail components may indeed be possible. It would likely propagate into reworking everything aft of the cabin. Whether it's a workable mod is impossible to say--especially in a general case. Personally, I'd put 'change the tail' on the list way below 'buy a smaller airplane'.
But I'm just being negative.
Regards
RE: Tail plane design
My reconsidered reply: this may not be such a bad mod after all. Still, though, any sort of general answer is impossible. It depends on the plane's configuration and, to some extent, the magnitude of the change. Would you need to relocate 10% of the tail? Or two thirds?
What kind of plane are we talking about when this mod is an option? Of course, if this is a type-certified aircraft it'd be much cheaper to just get started on that new hangar.
Regards
RE: Tail plane design
Even if your initial response was made pre- caffeine, it was pretty funny :)
RE: Tail plane design
Messing with the lines of such a pretty airplane--now I'm even more opposed than when I was asleep! :)
Regards
RE: Tail plane design
Anything is possible, the real question is whether it is practical. Look at a new hanger... cause if you can afford to buy and fly this aircraft, you can certainly afford a new hanger.
Have fun.
RE: Tail plane design
RE: Tail plane design
RE: Tail plane design
The Constallation with it's 3 vertical stabs was built to accomodate existing hangers.
RE: Tail plane design
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams
RE: Tail plane design
Something that has yet to be mentioned in this discussion is the loss of one of the most important control surfaces in a twin-engine (wing-mounted) airplane: The Rudder!
As a twin engine pilot (and aero engineer), I would not recommend removing, or moving for that matter, ANY portion of the rudder! We pilots always want a bigger rudder, no matter what size it is already.
If you argue that you could add rudder to a lower portion of the vertical tail, don't forget about high angle of attack situations. I haven't studied the 262 much, but the flow past that horizontal tail in high alpha (angle of attack) might play a factor in rudder authority in stall conditions. Then add a sideslip condition to your high alpha, and...
In aerobatic airplanes, spin recovery is also an issue, including recovery from inverted spins!
You'll probably have much larger problems if you spin a 262 (flameout for one), but this is something to remember when you compare clipping the vertical tail to building a new hangar!
I have just FINISHED my morning coffee, and happen to agree with i278's first musical chairs comments!
I might suggest cutting a groove in the top of your hangar.
Regards,
Grant Wittenborn
Aerospace Engineer
www.darcorp.com
RE: Tail plane design
Way back in the mists of time when the Short Belfast (beautiful big transport a/c for the RAF) was being made, the door of the assembly building was too low to get the tail structure through so i278's idea was used - they rolled most of the fuselage out through the door and then jacked up the nose to lower the tail enough to get it through.
Just goes to show that a good idea never dies.
Rikman
If Beethoven had been killed in a plane crash at the age of 22, it would have changed the history of music...
and of aviation.
RE: Tail plane design
Create a rolling platform with supports for the fueselage and engines such as those on a boat trailer.. There are gaps in it so that the whgeels can roll the plane onto it. The plat form is then jacked up till it lifts the plane off the ground, the gear is retracted, and then the platfrom is lowered to the ground and the platform is rolled in. This could also make maintenance easier, as the plane can be lowered and raised as needed.
Thomas Schneider
RE: Tail plane design
BUDDY - YOU OUGHT TO CONSIDER THAT YOU ARE IN POSSESSION OF A PART OF AVIATION HISTORY WHICH HOPEFULLY WILL BE PASSED ON IN GOOD AIRWORTHY CONDITION TO THE NEXT PROUD OWNER . NOTHING IS FOREVER !
IF YOU WANT TO FIT THAT BEAUTIFUL HISTORIC AIRPLANE INTO AN EXISTING HANGAR WITH OUT HANGAR RASH -THE ANSWER MAY BE A LEKTRO TOWBARLESS AIRCRAFT HANDLING VEHICLE - THIS DOES NOT USE TOWBAR AND WILL PICK UP THE NOSE GEAR - THEREFORE JACKING UP THE NOSE AND DROPPING THE TAIL ASSY. - WE HAVE USED ONE RECENTLY TO FIT CIT VII INTO CIT II HANGAR .
TRY www.lektro.com - OR WE CAN QUOTE .
HI TO RIKER -I SERVED MY APPRENTISHIP IN SHORTS BELFAST -1952 TO 1957 - SO BEFORE THE BELFAST AIRCRAFT WAS BUILT - MOSTLY ON SUNDERLANDS ETC. .
ALL THE BEST - J.C.
RE: Tail plane design
If it mkaes you feel better, i agree with ur comments about hacking up old planes:)
Best wishes
RE: Tail plane design
What in the world is so significant about the ME 262 as to ask a question like modifying it's tail? Why not pick on an airplane with an "actual" tall-tail issue, especially since you don't own an Me 262? Let's cross the bridge when we get to it, shall we?
RE: Tail plane design
RE: Tail plane design
On one of my 262 kits, i took out the cockpit, faired over the fuselage hole, lengthened the nose and painted it as a guided missile. If messing with the lines of the `262 bothers you, i hope that stops you sleeping!!!!
RE: Tail plane design
Rikman
If Beethoven had been killed in a plane crash at the age of 22, it would have changed the history of music...
and of aviation.