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Limiting a job search based on CAD preference
2

Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

(OP)
In a recent thread, Thread731-68323, a forum participant indicated that he was looking for a new job as a mechanical designer using SolidWorks.

This got me wondering.  Is it wise to limit your job search to only potential employeers that share your preference in CAD package?

The primary marketable skill you have it the ability to produce a design that works.  A secondary skill is knowledge of solid modeling techniques.  A tertiary skill is specific knowledge about a particular tool.  The modeling techniques are easily transferable to any of the popular CAD platforms.

Imagine an auto mechanic limiting his job search by tool.  "I want to work as a mechanic, but only at a shop that uses 12 point sockets, not 6 point sockets."  Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?  (Well that's because this is an example of "reduction ad absurdium").

Anyway, what do job seakers and employers out there think?

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

It makes sense to a degree.  I don't hink one should limit oneself solely on CAD packages, but it happens.  This is especially true with non-degreed designers in the automotive field.

Last time around job hunting, I drew the line at working in parametric 3D, and not regressing to AutoCAD 2D design.  I had experience with UG and Pro/E, and was able to convince my employer that I could learn SolidWorks on the fly (I actually had already started with the demo version at home).

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Well, I tend to agree that we should NOT reduce our research to a specific software. I'm currently looking for a job as mechanical engineer, I know Pro/E and SW quite well and also know some basics with AutoCAD (I hate this one ) But in my search for a job, I also look for Catia-based companies. We never know, they can offer a formation to the soft if your profile is one they're looking for.

Just my 2 cents

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

To do a major change and move a family to another state, I would limit my CAD pkg to parametric 3D. Why take a job using AutoCAD and be miserable? If I were laid off and was desperate, I would take it temperarily until I found the job I was looking for.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

I would not limit the search at all. With most software, if you know one real good then the others can USUALLY be picked up in a decent time frame. I have also seen HR people write an ad and identify the wrong software. CAD is CAD to them, it does not matter if its AutoCAD, ProE, Solidworks or whatever. You can always tell them no but you can never tell them yes if you eliminate it up front. Personal preference.   

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Your right, Buzzp...I agree
thanks

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Unfortunately many employers will limit applicants to a particular software as businesses tend to have a short term view and would prefer not to train someone, even though that training would be minimal if they were already familiar with similar packages. No doubt this is because of a large surplus of labour from which they can choose from. I've even had employers ask which version of a package I was familiar with, as if that would be a problem.
To increase your chances of finding work try and and avoid Human Resource people and Recruitment Agents, the leeches of society, who are less likely to be aware of technology skills.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

re: excerpt from MintJulep's original post:
Imagine an auto mechanic limiting his job search by tool.  "I want to work as a mechanic, but only at a shop that uses 12 point sockets, not 6 point sockets."

I have refused jobs based on CAD packages available.  This was not because the particular package was not to my liking, but because it was more like: "We'll give you a pliers because we don't have wrenches and socket sets."

It's not that I am unwilling to learn new CAD packages.  Sometimes, a companies software selection speaks volumes about its willingness to get the right tool for the job.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

My thoughts are with Tick.
I feel if a company doesn't use a good CAD pkg, what does that tell me about the rest of the company? I feel comfortable limiting myself, and I have the patients. I have used AutoCAD for several years and now use SolidWorks. Moving to a job that only uses ACAD will be a big step backwards in my opinion, so why make the move?

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

A company that chooses to use only ACAD for mechanical design is intentionally choosing to operate inefficiently. They're doing so for one of two reasons:

1) They're so borderline that they don't have any cash available to invest in the business, or

2) The decision-makers do not understand that increased efficiency conferred by the state-of-the-art software.

I would not choose a job there unless no other choices were available.

It's also a matter of you continuing to be competetive. By working for a place using old technology you are falling behind all the folks who are mastering the new technology.

It's also very frustrating to have to use AutoCAD after having used paramtric modelers.

ctopher said "Why take a job using AutoCAD and be miserable? If I were laid off and was desperate, I would take it temperarily until I found the job I was looking for." - Amen brother/sister. That's me to a tee and it really sucks. Talk about seeing your career going down the toilet.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

My situation is that the boss won't even pay for AutoCAD so he's that much less likely to pay for SW, etc.

I've been considering trying to talk him into splitting with me the cost of a seat of SW, provided I own the license. It's a pretty chunk of change, though.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Good luck Binary.
Maybe let him read some of these forums?
You have to spend money to make money...
I hope it works out for you.
ctopher

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

I would never buy software for a company. Instead, I would look for a different job. If you do buy it, get some legal document that says you own the license.
My last place of employment was kind enough to let me lay out a PCB using a demo program that expired in 30 days. I told them they need to buy it. To no avail. As far as I know, they are still spending about 1.5hrs per board to place the Kluges on the board from the first proto-type board. Morons I tell ya, Morons.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

I had interviewed for a position as an engineering manager in a division that used AutoCAD exclusively.  I had mentioned that finding well-qualified designers willing to work on AutoCAD would be a challenge.I stated that I believed that in the mechanical design field, most competent designers are not going to stay working in a 2D environment for long when there are 3D opportunities available.  That brought the interview to a sudden halt.

I happened to meet the man who was hired for that position (I met him at a SolidWorks rollout at our VAR).  He spent a lot of time an energy trying to bring 3D modeling to his department.  He said there were too many problems that couldn't be overcome with their current software situation, including hiring and retaining competent people.  Ultimately, he quit.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Unfortunately some companies feel that they have too much legacy data to make a transition.  If you talk with a company that uses 2D software, take a look at the product.  Perhaps it is simple enough that 2D suffices.  If not and they are not considering changing to 3D, they are likely going to start losing business.  Those major players in the 3D CAD arena are adding or improving FEA capabilities, the next step in their evolution.

To MintJulep's original start to this thread,  CAD is only a tool but it is a VERY POWERFUL tool.  It has a significant impact on a companies ability to compete in the marketplace (and hence provide employment opportunities).

Regards

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Seems to me that you have to make up your mind whether you are a CAD operator, or a designer, and whether its the product that you are interested in, or just making models and drawings.

Many years ago when I ran a large Design department, I aquired the name 'Changeit'. That was because when I acquired the department it had a large complement of people whose only concern seemed to be the appearance and 'integrity' of their conformance of their pretty drawings to (BS308 at the time) standards. They didn't like changing things, and were too focussed on presentation.

It did not seem to matter that the products were difficult and expensive to manufacture, that they did not work well and were out of step with what customers wanted. Re-educating some and removing the remainder of these Prima Donnas proved to be the salvation of the business, and changing designs for the better meant a bigger order book, better profits and personal rewards for everybody.

If you want maximum satisfaction from your work as a designer, its the product you should get it from, not the tools.

"Putting Automation into CAD ©"

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

oldluddite:

I worked with someone like you, once.  I enjoyed it immensely.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

"Seems to me that you have to make up your mind whether you are a CAD operator, or a designer, and whether its the product that you are interested in, or just making models and drawings."

totally agreed there

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

FYI,
I agree oldluddite,
But myself, I create dwgs per specs/stds and I will change the dwg as many times as possible to make sure the part is machined effeciantly. When the part is designed, we run it thru COSMOS, send a mockup to the customer for check, then send it to the machine shop. With AutoCAD, and can't do this as easily as SolidWorks or Pro-E. This is not only enjoyable, but is the future in design/mfg. In my opinion, any company not in step with this process is doomed. This is why my job search is limited.
Sorry, just my thoughts. :)

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Just because I hate not knowing what words like this mean...

Lud•dite

a member of any of various bands of workers in England (1811–16) organized to destroy manufacturing machinery, under the belief that its use diminished employment.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Interesting Tick.
I use to be an Automation Engineer. Whenever the union machinist saw use automating a machine or process, they were furious thinking we were putting them out of a job.
Until they started using the newly automated machine...now just setting it up and pushing 'go', sit down and read a book. Funny how updated the tools can make an employee worry at first, then happy in the end.

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Regarding MintJulep's original post--it's not wise to limit your search to a particular CAD package, but I have seen that many employers (at least in automotive) limit their search to people with those skills.

A case in point in Detroit--I know of experienced Pro/E designers who are having trouble finding a job, as that CAD platform has been pretty much dropped from NA automotive, and nobody wants to invest the time to retrain them. It's not an issue of no CAD jobs; it's rather an issue of the CAD users with proficiency in particular products getting the job offers.

Advertising oneself as an "IDEAS" or "UG" guy may give somebody a leg up on a general "CAD" Designer. Unfair and short-sighted? Possibly.  But this is a reality at least from what I've heard from my CAD friends.

Brad

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

THe only argument to putting a specific CAD package on your resume is the fact that many companies scan resumes looking for key words.

I believe though, that any engineer or draftsman worth his salt can move from one to the other relatively quickly. I mean this in terms of one type of package to another. I use Solid Edge. THe last 2 engineers we hired used Solidworks in previous jobs. They took about a week to get stuff squared away. Time is mostly spent figuring out what the new package calls this and the workarounds for all of the bugs.

With the way I design now, I would rather gouge my eyes out than have to do the same work on AutoCAD.

Since the subject has been brought up in this thread, I would like to share my opinion on 2D vs. 3D and CAD as a tool.

I think I am a halfway decent engineer, at least pretty good at designing machinery and coming up with new concepts. I am a crappy drafsman. I don't know anything about standards. I went to a very hands on engineering school (Cal Poly SLO), but they were changing the curriculum around and I did the minimum amount of drafting classes to graduate. I taught myself Solid Edge my senior year. I used it to design and build 2 food processing machines for my Sr. Project.

A full 3D package like Solid Edge or Solid works (or PRO/E etc.) allows someone like me to design very accurately and quickly, separate from the 2D angle. My model is then drawn out by a draftsperson, or in the case of my company the manufacturing engineer.

This helps to keep drawings standards from affect how to design something.

I can't draw an outline of my hand, I would be lost without 3D.

Adios,

Clyde

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Brad,
From my experience, it depends in what feild your looking for.
i.e, CATIA- automotive, med
UG- aerospace, mfg
ProE- commercial
SW- a little of all of above

 Just limited to what I have experienced
ctopher

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

ctopher--
I agree--when I state Detroit, I'm talking automotive. ProE has been steadily dropping off the map in most of Detroit. These days, it seems if one doesn't know UG/IDEAS/CATIA, the pickings are slim for a CAD in Detroit. Similar things are likely seen in other "one-industry" towns (although the particular packages in demand may be different).

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

AutoCAD is still used by alot of smaller companies. Only in the electrical and civil areas. For electrical you will find it in the power areas as well as electrical mfg (not board or electrical design but enclosures and fixtures) along with solid works. Civils do a lot of work in AutoCAD from what I know.
If you consider yourself a mechanical designer or engineer then maybe AutoCAD, specifically, could be excluded from your search. However, other areas use AutoCAD that may include some mechanical design that are not mechanical specific.
Then there are the companies that operate with antique tools when the new tools boost productivity and are easily justifiable. Like upgrading from AutoCAD to SolidWorks.  

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

Commands like ELEVATION and object properties like "THICKNESS" are evidence that AutoCAD is not perfectly suited to anything other than civil drafting.

However, small companies like the one I work for can't afford the big names, so AutoCAD is good enough for us, and since so many technical schools teach AutoCAD, it's easiest to find grads that can hop in the seat and pump out drawings within a week or so.

I think it would be hard to justify the cost of upgrading from AutoCAD to SolidWorks in a small company because

a) we keep referring to the old drawings, so we'd have to keep AutoCAD current anyway
b) we draw quickly with blocks that would all have to be converted
c) EVERYONE in the company would have to take the time to learn the new system, because everyone draws.
d) our customers see nothing but paper drawings.  The arrangement of the electrons provides no value added.

STF

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

re original post: "I want to work as a mechanic, but only at a shop that uses 12 point sockets, not 6 point sockets."

Another way to look at this would be "I am an experienced, BMW trained mechanic, and want to work where my hard gained knowledge and experience will do me and my employer the most good.  I do not want to work on Yugos."  Doesn't sound quite as ridiculous now.

  I have over 13 years of experience working with UG.  It is not the only CAD system I can work on, but it is the one on which I am most efficient.
  In the real world out there today, you can expect to earn much less (sometimes 50%) in a direct position that requires learning a new CAD system compared to what you can earn building on your previous CAD experience in the contract field.  Permanent employers are willing to suffer your learning curve comfortable in the knowledge that you will learn to meet their needs at less cost over the long term.  Temporary employers don't have that luxury, and are willing to pay top rates for proven designers to meet their deadlines.  These jobs can and often do turn into direct positions.
  I would rather expend my efforts in creating a good design with tools that I am very familiar with than suffer the frustrations of learning a new software package while those deadlines keep getting closer and closer.
  I have been fortunate enough to land a direct position near my home with a company that utilizes three of the higher end systems, UG, CATIA, and SW, but at a cost to my income.  I just hope those deadlines ease off enough to pick up those other systems.
  The bottom line is that it all depends on your own goals.  If you want to make the most money, regardless of product or location, go for the jobs with the CAD systems you know.  If money isn't as important, but what you would be designing, job location and security are, then be flexible and emphasize your design ability and eagerness to learn differing CAD systems on your resume.
  Just my 2 cents worth.   

RE: Limiting a job search based on CAD preference

ewh,
I totally agree with you.
I am also the most effeciant with one CAD system, but know something of a few others.

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