Career advise
Career advise
(OP)
Hello everyone:
I am looking for career advise. I am a structural engineer with a little over two years experience. I am interested in working for an architectual/engineering firms. What kind of skills should I be adding to repetoire to head in this direction. I have a bachelor degree in civil engineering with classes in Reinforced Concrete and LRFD Steel design. Should I take classes in Timber and Prestressed Steel design? How much would a master degree help in this field and what classes should I take to head in this direction. Is it better to begin with a firm that is big or should I start with a small firm so can have more responsibility.
Any help you can provide is appreciated.
Thank you
SIncerely
Kmat
I am looking for career advise. I am a structural engineer with a little over two years experience. I am interested in working for an architectual/engineering firms. What kind of skills should I be adding to repetoire to head in this direction. I have a bachelor degree in civil engineering with classes in Reinforced Concrete and LRFD Steel design. Should I take classes in Timber and Prestressed Steel design? How much would a master degree help in this field and what classes should I take to head in this direction. Is it better to begin with a firm that is big or should I start with a small firm so can have more responsibility.
Any help you can provide is appreciated.
Thank you
SIncerely
Kmat





RE: Career advise
good questions...I will start with what everyone will bust me on....get yout FE and PE license.....then go to work for a small firm since you are right in your thinking that you will get exposed to a lot more in a shorter period of time. Get your PE after 4 years with the smaller firm, then look for a bigger firm...doing something you like to do. Then think about the masters after you see its relevance in what you like to do....
Just my thoughts....
BobPE
RE: Career advise
My advice is to work for a company which provides engineering services that are not likely to be moved overseas. (Gov't work, power plants, land developement, etc. ) If the trend continues most large companies will have the bulk of their traditional engineering overseas and you will have insufficient time to reach management by then.
A master's degree depends on what you want to do. For soil engineering, environmental engineering, etc. it is necessary. For some other specialties, it is extraneous.
You may also want to consider a career which uses your skills but is outside main stream engineering such as law or corporate planning. Regular engineering in this country does not currently have a bright future.
Good Luck !!!!
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
As long as you are unemployed while enrolled in school, you should be able to work on a Master's while working toward your PE. Just make sure you complete it within the required period from matriculation.
And, unless you start a program with an ABET accredited school offering alternate deliveries (internet, videotape, etc), you should plan on being stuck in the locale after you start grad school until graduation.
I would not take any graduate classes for a potential degree without first making sure the courses are acceptable in the degree plan.
RE: Career advise
I would still like everyone advise about working for a small firm if you have an opinion on it.
Thanks Again
Kmat
RE: Career advise
As for small companies. I've worked in small & large. Both have positives & negatives. Small companies are right for some, large companies are better for others. Our experiences with company size won't be the same as yours.
When we're making decisions affecting my career (& I say we, my DH has input on my career decisions), we sit down & make a list. We discuss the pros & cons. I make the final decision, but only after I've analyzed it with "stakeholder" input.
Make a list of criteria important to you & use that list to make your decision. How will that decision help you meet your goals?
RE: Career advise
To blatantly apply this to all engineering reflects on your misconception of engineering in general. I have tried to refrain from getting upset but I am tired of everyone saying your not an engineer without a PE. I find myself heading in a direction I do not want to go but I will with the next PE that makes such a derogatory remark about non-PE's. If you went to a college that offered electrical and civil and structural then you will know what I am referring too. Give it a rest!
RE: Career advise
BobPE
RE: Career advise
Me being upset is also from another thread, kinda. The slam that your not an engineer without a PE was made in this thread, hence my comments.
I believe Kmat probably realizes he should get his PE, if I were structural or civil, I would too.
RE: Career advise
all engineering disiplines have the same access to the PE. I work with many PE electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, architectural engineers, industrial engineers, mining engineers, marine engineers, environmental engineers, structural engineers, civil engineers, sanitary engineers.
I can see you being upset, I get the same way, but you know what, it forces us to communicate, even if its in the little work here at the forums....
RE: Career advise
My point is those that believe your not an engineer without a PE have some learning to do about engineering in general. Why would a designer have a PE when all of his work has to go through safety agency approvals? What benefit will I get if my design (resistors, capacitors, IC's, chokes, LCD's, jumpers, plugs, push buttons, and other COMPONENTs) has a PE signature? Absolutely none. The design still has to go to a third party for approval. When you are working for joe public, you are the last line of defense against harmful conditions so you should bear the consequnces of your design. Us design engineers have a last line of defense in safety agency approvals. There is a need for identifying responsible parties when dealing with the public. There is not a need in the design world. We screw up, we redesign the product at the same time our employer starts to question us and we accept the consequences. The kicker is, the messed up product has not been made available to the public.
RE: Career advise
The BSEE can be in power engineering or electronics engineering. Power engineers need to be RPEs (IMHO), electronics engineering majors usually end up working under the industry exemption. Then there is Computer Science Engineering and industrial engineering (jack of all trades, master of none, as my IE friends claimed).
I used to get into teasing sessions with a co-worker who was an Industrial (Imaginary) Engineering major. Because she acquired her work experience consecutive with degree & mine was concurrent, when Texas had a drive to register industry exempt engineers a number of years ago she was eligible to to be grandfathered into a PE registration & I was not.
RE: Career advise
why do your designs have to go to a third party for approval? Who is this third party? I am just talking out loud....but I guess in my world, the engineer is responsible for their designs, not a third party....I think the same would apply in your world, and I think you as an engineer could benefit from you being the third party....If (and I say IF) your employer was required by some law that they can only use PE's, AND most industry engineers had their PE, don't you think you would be in a better position in general as an engineer making engineering decisions? Don't you think that forcing people that require engineering services to use licensed engineers would benefit all engineers? These are just thoughts....more about the profession that about the individual....
BobPE
RE: Career advise
As Bob said I think you have gone too far to the other extreme.
"What benefit will I get if my design (resistors, capacitors, IC's, chokes, LCD's, jumpers, plugs, push buttons, and other COMPONENTs) has a PE signature? Absolutely none"
It sounds to me like you are saying a PE means nothing. A PE demonstrates a person has met certain requirements for verified experience, education, and tested knowledge. It's not all-encompassing and no guarantee of a competent person, but it means something IMHO.
RE: Career advise
Also, I cannot understand why a person who has chosen engineering as a profession would not go through the rather small effort of getting a P.E. if they can.
Please don't give me a litany about how "it's just a piece of paper" and you refuse to "jump through hoops". If you were graduated by a college or university, you jumped through many hoops to recieve that piece of paper.
I'm sure you're proud of your college degree. And you should be it is an accomplishment. Likewise, A P.E. is an accomplishment and I'm personally proud to have it.
RE: Career advise
To dannym - I just used your comments to create context for my discussion. I didn't mean to criticize you.... there are plenty of others here that will take up that fight.
RE: Career advise
I agree with you, I just think that to gain any ground on the issue of the PE, its going to take a lot of convincing on non-PE's to accomplish this. I have seen all to many PE's take extreme points of view on not involving themselves with industry exempt engineers and letting them die on the vine. You are right though, there are more excuses not to take the PE than there are legit reasons not to have the PE.
I am proud of my PE also....I think its's a worthy goal for all engineers to achieve....
BobPE
RE: Career advise
Way back when ...in the times of old...(have to set the stage you know...)...when many of us
old fartsfine upstanding eng-tips contributors graduated from engineering school, the PE requirements were primarily focused on the structural, civil, power, and other disciplines that affect safety of society.The testing for PE was slanted HEAVILY toward civil and structural when I graduated. The requirements have changed a lot over the years mostly due to the NSPE wanting to bring in the industry exempts into the PE fold. The NSPE has evolved accordingly. Had the PE process today existed when I was in school, I would have done it back then. Back then, I felt like I needed to go back to school & get another engineering degree before I could sit for the PE, so I never did.
It may be true today for new grads that there is no reason for them to NOT take the EIT & then go onto get the PE. But for these
old fartsfine upstanding eng-tips contributors who've worked successfully for so long under the industry exemption, it's a different story.Sooo, open up your mind. A mind is like a parachute. It's about worthless when it's closed. Consider our viewpoint & realize that while it may not happen instantaneously (all engineering grads go for PE status), by attrition, it will come around in the long run. There's no need to denegrate us simply because we didn't major in an area where the PE was focused back when we were fresh young engineering grads.
RE: Career advise
As far as third party approval issues. This is where some of you fall short of understanding and what I have been pointing out in several other threads. In product design, there are third party agencies that say if your product is safe or not, I am sure you have heard of them, UL, CSA,(amongst others). This third party approval is definately not mandatory but will certainly limit your market as some companies will not purchase products without an approval of some kind (not including a PE stamp). This shifts SOME of the liability to the safety agency depending on the origin of the problem. The company is still responsible to some degree.
Why would an electrical engineer in the product design world want to understand distribution and transmission lines, short circuit analysis of such systems, and even the NEC? And worst of all, why would he/she want to take a test in an area they have not worked in but only studied in college? Makes no sense. The EE world is way to broad and covers way too many areas to apply a blanket test too.
A PE license for a product design engineer might make some sense, I.E. where should bypass capacitors be placed, what types of caps are used for what purposes, how to handle EMC issues. You see my point? Electrical engineers don't just handle transmission and distribution systems. Now if my argument is still extreme that a product design engineer has absolutely no benefit from obtaining a PE, please present your points from a product design engineers point of view. I do agree that a PE might open up some doors, but if your staying in product design forget about your PE.
dannym; I guess there are several thousand companies who are breaking the law by having engineers with 'engineer' in their title. This is totally wrong. The real situation is for a COMPANY to have engineer in their company name is illegal if they are not represented by PE's not the title.
I have never said that a PE means squat. I said it means squat in the product design world. I am in no way bashing PE licensees. My comments come about from someone bashing non PE's, yet again.
RE: Career advise
One thing I will say is that the electrical PE is by no means limited to electrical distribution. Look at the green PE prep book by Yarbrough... it covers the same areas as the test. That would include stuff like transistors, op-amps, analog amplifiers, a/d & d/a coversion, instrument loops, control systems, frequency response, wave analysi, economic analysis etc. I am guessing if you are electrical your job has something to do with the above.
RE: Career advise
For those that do not know, I would like to get my PE when time allows. I may get the chance with my new employer. I will likely get it to keep my future options open. I never said a PE was a bad thing just that it had little benefits for some EE designing products that a PE might specify.
RE: Career advise
My advice to anyone contemplating the PE is apply for the PE exam at the earliest time you are eligible. Even if you're not sure about the test you might surprise yourself. On top of that I think you get two or three attempts with one application fee.... if the first one doesn't work just consider it a practice.
RE: Career advise
You stated:
"The state I live in and many states (and I believe Canada also) require that you have a P.E. in order to represent yourself as an engineer. A company cannot give you a job title with "Engineer" in it unless you have a P.E."
I guess the US Navy is wrong for calling a nonPE, an Engineering Officer.
PE or NO PE - Engineering Degree or English Degree - you are not going to sit in the hot seat unless you have your Engineer Officer Of the Watch Letter. We call it EOOW letter.
Also, it is unlikely you will ever command a ship without an EOOW letter. Do you think all of those Navy Ship Captains have engineering degrees much less PE's?
Likewise, all the shipalts and engineeng manuals used on Navy ships were written in blood! It is the 17, 18 and 19 year old sailor at sea that has to live with the mistakes made not only by the PEs but also by the policy that dictates lowest bidder builds the ship or supplies materials.
So to all the PEs, Non PE Design Engineers and others, put yourself in the shoes of a sailor down in the engineroom smelling diesel fumes, because of a faulty ventilation system, and all of a sudden the ship goes dark and quiet because of a faulty circuit card in the Woodward Electronics Governor Control!
I firmly belief that EITs should have to operate what they are going to design for at least 2,000 hours - Notice I didn't use years. Ask a pilot how long it takes to log 2,000 hours of flight time?
Ask an EOOW how long it takes to log 2,000 hours in the hot seat! At least 5 deployments that are 9 months long each, with 6 to 9 months between deployments!
So, the next time you slap your PE stamp on a set of wastewater treatment plans, think about how many hours you have operating an actual plant!
Also, when you design a shipboard fuel system and slap your PE stamp on it, don't forget that the Navy is required to take on fuel from third world countries. Yep, everytime that happened, we went through 50 cases of coelescer filters - Forget it - just bypass the coelescer filter when the delta P alarm goes off - tired of changing out filters - Oh we can bypass the alarm switch so it doesn't register on the data logger!
Signing Off
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
Again my advice to anyone is apply as soon as your are eligible. Another reason for that is that the process takes a long time... paperwork including waiting for references, board review and exam timetables.
RE: Career advise
buzzp, just take it cold, you may be surprised!!! IF you dont make it the first time, its a great study prep.
BobPE
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
Although engineering has been downgraded to getting a piece a paper, I hope we dont forget that being in engineer is more than the paper.
Sincerely,
Kmat
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
When there is a big-dollar problem with equipment, management doesn't always trust their local plant staff. They like to hire an outside expert with 30 years experience in that particular technology/equipment to come in and tell them the same thing.
I have been through 10 or 15 of these from the plant staff side. Last one cost $11,000 for three days. I have to say only one or two gave anything I considered useful (most of them confirmed what we were saying). Two of them set us backwards with dubious recommendations that I disagreed with... guess who management believed.
Sorry for the attitude creeping in. The point is that if you have some claim to being an expert in a field, people will pay you big dollars whether you are worht it or not.
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
What next, tag team cage matches like the WWF?
Grow up!
Simple career advise: Get the PE. Then get the masters.
Don't forget, the Apollo moon landings were engineered by a bunch of people with BS degrees and a lot of common sense. No PE certificates, few masters or Phds.
RE: Career advise
To get back to your original question. You want to work for a architectural/engineering firm. Then go and apply to a LOT of them.
Your career is a lot like the Nike slogan, Just Do It!
Make finding a job a full time job in itself. Research the companies find out as much about them as you can and find out who is the decision maker in your area of interest. Go to the office and ask for a few minutes of that person’s time. Be ready to sit and wait for a couple of hours. When you meet the person demonstrate your knowledge of the firm by asking some pertinent questions about a recent project. Ask for a job or an opportunity to demonstrate your skills and ability in some capacity.
Have another firm in mind for tomorrow; repeat as required until you get an offer.
Don’t waste a lot of time taking a lot of courses because someone said that you need this knowledge to work in this area. Just start working in this area and you will quickly find out what areas you need some more training in. You can then take a course of simply go to the local university bookstore, buy the textbook and class notes (sometimes they are available from the internet) and start studying. Formal courses are often a much more time consuming method of acquiring knowledge that self study. Find a mentor in each area that you can ask questions and get help in some difficult areas. This is a never ending process.
Self-study also has the advantages of not tying you to ant particular schedule that may not suit your needs.
Stop wasting time banging on the keyboard, go out and get the job you want by finding where it is and asking for it.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Career advise
RE: Career advise
Thanks for your response to the original question. I am also currently looking for other employment options and I would like to know if you have any specific suggestions as to how to "research a company" besides looking at their web page?
RE: Career advise
You can check them out in the financial press. (Written and on-line)
Do a google search for the firm; they may be mentioned in some other chat rooms etc.
Also do a google news search for any current references to them in the news.
Talk to current and past employees of the firm.
If it makes a consumer product look them up in the consumer product reports.
Contact the Better Business Bureau.
Contact any industry and professional associations in the area of the firm’s operation.
Talk to the recruiting office at your local university. They will be especially helpful if you are a new graduate but they may have some information on the firm.
Talk to others who are familiar with the firm’s product (salesmen users of the product etc)
Contact the firm’s PR department directly. Take everything that they send you with a grain of salt. Ask about industry trends and new projects.
Contact the firm’s investor relation department directly as well. Get a copy of the annual report. If they recently made a public offering there should be a copy of the prospectus available. Read all the fine print in that no matter how painful. Financial disclosure laws are very strict.
Finally contact the firm’s HR department. Ask about new employee policies, employee development policies. You can say that you are doing some research on the trends and practices in the industry. (Not a lie, just be a little circumspect on why you are doing the research.) You an also say that you are an applicant and ask that you are looking into the firm to be prepared for an interview.
Use your imagination and follow up on any leads that you get from these sources.
Good luck
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com