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Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
I think that i speak for many users of the software when i say SW needs to print a comprehensive manual for 2004 with all commands, not a dinky Whats New short story. I think that this is needed because the software has and is becoming complicated and you cannot always reference the online help and see a full screen while working. Plus it's not like we are paying chump change for subscription service.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I find that manuals just sit there, doing nothing more useful than holding the bookshelf down.

It would be nice to have the option of getting manuals. In a perfect world...

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

SolidWorks printed a manual once?

Good and evil: wrap them up and disguise it as people.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

95 to 96 or 7 but then that's when they stopped printing them for customer use. If the customer takes the training which is better than just getting the books, they get the book for free. Having the training makes it easier for VAR's when they try to explain something. Not having the training may or will result in longer times on the phone...and since time is money, that will save everyone time & money if the user takes the training.

I also don't think it would be cost effective for SW to print all those manuals for every seat of SW in the world. That would be alot of cash going out on manuals for all users of SW. On top of that once a user goes through that book he or she will probably never have to get it out again, and only have it for reference. Which is what you have the book for once you have completed the training. Might as well take the time and pay the cash to get the training, because your only make things better and easier for yourself.

Your Subscription money goes to more than what you think. That money pays for a lot of stuff...IMO. It pays for New releases, SP's, over the phone support, new enhancements, Enhancement requests...There are other areas that I can't think of right now. It's getting to be that time of the day .

I believe your money is hard at work, and from what I've seen of SW04 you will agree when you see it. I hope it helps some of you that are suffering from Stability issues. I myself have found SW03 to be fine as well as SW04.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I have to disagree Scott. The absence of a decent manual is not very professional of a company that charges more then $4000 for their product and than an annual 1200 or so.

Imagine Ford saying, after you buy the car, we will show you how to use your car for a 1000 training fee. That would be laughable.

I am not saying training should not be an option. However, the deliberate lack of a comprehensive manual/reference book to compel people to take training is underhanded.

Anyways, once the user base is large enough, 3rd party publishers will pick up the slack.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Perhaps a print-friendly PDF?

Good and evil: wrap them up and disguise it as people.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Would be a good compromise.

However, when I use AutoCad 2002 I have a nice printed manual. When I use Visual Basic I have many nice printed manuals, from Msoft even. When I play a 20 dollar game it has a manual... printed even.

However if it would prevent subscription costs from going up $60 dollars a year then I would take a PDF. Would be really useful if the PDF's had hyperlinks to Ed Eaton's surfacing presentations too.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
The reason for my posts is that the manual/help needs to be done differently. The cost to produce and manufacuterer a manual would be approximately $25-$30 for 800pages. (a friend use to work for a publishing company thats how i came up with the figure). Heck look at third party books like Inside Solidworks 2003 $56.00 858 pages long. If a third party can produce a book and retail for that with middle men involved, solidworks can inexpensively. This also would make SW really look at their own commands and functions and think them through from a users standpoint also.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

So all of you are saying SW should send out all 10+ books to all customers for each new version and user of SW? (A pdf file would be different)

After everyone goes through all those books, they will sit on the shelf and collect dust, because after that you will really only need is the What's new manual. Because you will have the basic knowledge and understanding of SW all you need to know is how SW has changed, modified and or improved something about the program. Then all that money that was used to make and send those books to all the customers for every version of every user would be wasted.

I'm not defending SW, I can just see it from their perspective. Since after all when I first started using SW they sent me the manuals and they just sat that after I went through them. They collected dust and all I ever read after that was What's New, and I still only read the what's new. Having the books for a reference is nice on occasion, but they collect more dust than I do reading them.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
Perhaps, SW should let the users decide if they want a manual or not? Then they could send them to those that do. It's a pain in the rear to print 800pgs on a inkjet printer and doing it on both sides of the paper or it would balloon up to 1600pgs . Plus it would cost about $60-$70 in ink cartridges to do it. I think they could print up pages that would fit in a nice 3 ring binder with pad printed SW and Version and provide the pages that way. Then send out replacement pages or additional pages on new features to put in the binder. So initially yes they would have to send one to everyone that buys a new seat or is on subscription, but after that only send out update pages and a new binder for a new version. I think this would be a great compromise for all and would cut their costs significantly.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I think I'd rather have them direct thier energy to releasing bug-free sotfware over printed manuals.  I've looked at some of the other 2nd-source books on SolidWorks... they are no better or worse than the manuals we used to get from SW.

MadMango
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities."
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Scott,

All my books collect dust.  It doesn't mean I never read any of them.  But when I use them they are invaluable.
I have a much easier time reading out of a book then I do off the screen.  Am I the only one?
  
I completely agree that there should be a printed manual or several printed manuals.  It is the software companies responsibility to provide this and somehow we as consumers have let many a software company get away with stiffing us.

This never happened when the PC first entered the market.  Does anyone remember the detailed, spiral bound manuals for DOS from companies like DEC or IBM.  But at somepoint the software companies decided/knew that consumers would still by there stuff regardless, so they just said to hell with the customer.  Very bad in my opinion.  Especially for the 5K type programs.  By the way, Mathematica and a few other decent software companies still provide extremely useful manuals.   

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I still have and use my SW99 User's Guide. The pages are dog eared w/ lots of notes in the margin. However, four releases later, it's loosing it's relevance. I like manuals much better than trying to navigate the help file or my stack of four "What's New" books. A comprehensive user's guide should be available with each new release. If they want to charge for it, I'll gladly pay.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

We could debate this all day long, but as it is now SW is not going to be printing any manuals in the near future.

All of you that want these manauls printed are going to probably have to send in an Enhancement request.

I'm not saying that any of you are wrong in wanting manuals. I'm just saying they are not going give them away as it stands now. You will have to just break down and go to the training to get the books. IMO those that go, will benefit from the training then you will following a manual between jobs, teaching yourself. Yes I taught myself but only because I had a boss that wouldn't send us to any form of training. I would have learned more faster if I would have taken the training.

My last .02 worth...for now,

Best Regards to all,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I agree the training to get a manual is a good route for NEW USERS...

But what about existing users?  It would be nice to have a comprehensive manual handy instead of referring to all the What's New along with the original old worn-out manual.  Existing users don't always need the training, yet want an updated manual.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

So someone who has used SW 98+ through 2001 at company A and then works with SW 2003 at company B should have to go to training to get reference material?

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
That is the old VAR rub. I think SW has done away with the manual in order to push people to pay for training.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

$0.02--

Allow the option for the full manual when a new seat is purchased.  After that, the "What's New" manuals will fill-in the gaps.

My experience was great with the SW 97 full manual--I really didn't even need to be near the computer to start learning some of the concepts.  I took the advanced training back then and it did help in some of the less-known/used features.  Since then, the "What's New" materials seem to do the trick.


Jeff Mowry
DesignHaus Industrial Design
http://www.designhaus-i-d.com

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Rocko

     I have to agree – with both sides on this issue. I agree that there is a need for a comprehensive manual. I can also see that cost is the primary problem here. When 2001 or 2001+ came out – somewhere in the package was a small note stating that I could get a new Getting Started manual by making a call and requesting it. I did and read it as a refresher.

     The reason that I would like to have comprehensive manual is that SW has gotten larger and there are parts of it that I have not ever touched on. Granted – most of that may be Swoopy Stuff – but sometimes a fast refresher in something that is rarely done is needed. A few months ago I had to make a sheet metal transition from a cylinder to a hex shape. That is fairly simple and easy - right? I’ve done this before – but that was a couple of years ago and I couldn’t make it work. I ended up spending 4 or 5 hours before I started searching for an example.

     I don’t have to make molds very often – maybe once or twice a year. It would be nice to be able to grab a book and go to a coffee shop to read it before I spend a couple of weeks and a lot of money creating something that doesn’t work.

  Lee


Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Cost is a primary issue?  The cost of the subscription is over a 1000 a year per seat. AutoCad, to AutoDesk's credit, actually comes with good documentation.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

So who writes the best third party manual for those (like me) who are relatively new to SW but can't afford to take the training course?

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

My $.01 worth as I don't use SolidWorks.

Unigraphics and Pro/Engineer don't send any printed manuals with their code and they haven't for 3+ years. They do have complete manuals in .chm, HTML or PDF format that are included with each major release and a What's New guide for each sub-release. If I want to read a manual, I just print it. I have a stack of PTC manuals about 5 inches thick on my desk. I do save paper by printing 2 pages to a single sheet and then double side the copy. (We have our big Xerox on the network as a printer with all sorts of print format options.)

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli
CAD/CAM System Analyst
Ingersoll-Rand

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I have to disagree. I just started using Pro/E Wildfire and lack of manual is very frustrating. Given the high cost of CAD software, they owe it to their customers to provide them with a decent manual.

Some people may not need the full manual but a lot of people do. And so they should get it.

jevakil@mapdi.com

One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
Andy:
Inside solidworks 2003  by david murray you can buy it at Amazon.com I hope that helps. I was really disappointed when we switched to SW and found that there was no reference material.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

We made a corporate decision to go to the training and our VAR is very good about the manuals for the revisions.  By all evaluations a good decision. But like so many questions it really is a matter of degrees.  I am frustrated by the lack of a "quick reference" manual like the ones available for other softwares.  I don't need a tutorial or work thru for every command, but I do need a command reference with structure, syntax and the API functions right with it. Electronic format would be perfect, could be added to the present help format.  

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
BOBSHEETS, Check out the above mentioned book. That is why i purchased it. Also the only problem for those pro non printed manuals who say well keep buying the third party books. You have to wait at least 4-6 months before they are published after the new version is out.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Rocko & Scott;  Thanks for the recomend, I hesitate buying 3rd party unless somebody says it has worth or I can preview.  As for the updates, the "What's New" is good enough.  Most user's are only 25% of the existing capability, I usually have ample time to bone up on anything new before I roll-out the upgrade.  Thanks again!

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I just looked at Amazon, and David Murray's book got blasted in the reviews section. Everyone seemed to like the Planchard books more. However, the problem is just that: They have 3 books(!!) for 2003: engineering design, assembly modeling, and drawing and detailing, each around $60, which means to cover all of solidworks I'm looking at $180!!!

There was a third author, Sham Tickoo, has anyone read his book? Any comments on whether the poor reviews given to Murray are unjustified? Thanks

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I have both Dave Murray's and the Planchard's books. I personally like the Planchards better, but I have never heard of anything bad about Dave's book either. It was very helpful the first time I read it, but the planchard's book is pretty in depth..IMO.

If you were able to buy the training manuals from your VAR, you pay that at least that if not more, depending on the topic you wanted.

This Sham Tickoo I have never heard of...so I can't say anything about him.

Good luck,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

The real Tick has not heard anything of the Sham Tickoo.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I haven't read his book but Murray is the training instructor for my VAR and he is excellent in person.

Boosie

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I wrote a book review here Thread559-8109 on one of the early Planchard books.  Needless to say, I hope they have improved.

MadMango
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities."
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Since I have never seen a manual.... questions:

What makes the manual that much better than the help files?  Does it go into more detail?  Or is it the comfort of having a physical object separate from the terminal?

I learned SW from the tutorial and help files.  I followed this up by reconstructing as many Pro/E and UG models as I could before my imminent layoff.

Over the years, I've learned to reprogram my habits to the resources available.  There was a time when I liked having a paper manual, but most of this was just habit.

Good and evil: wrap them up and disguise it as people.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

SW Training manauls gives you a step by step process that may not be listed in the help. I have seen things that are in the manual, but not in the help.

These Books either by Planchards or Murray give some of these same steps, but I'm not what the differences are between the both of them and the SW training manuals.

It comes down to what you are willing to spend or what you can afford. If your company could afford training then I would take it. Not just to get the books, but to have the instructor to help guide you and answer any questions that you may have while your there.

I just want to reiterate a couple things I didn't mention above (A few posts ago)

If you don't have the time to go to Training...how would you be able to take the time to train yourself using these manauls or books?

With training you at least get have someone there to guide you through and answer any questions or problems you may encounter...The manauls will not tell you want an error means, someone that has been trained can.

Best Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

In my experience, training has always been more an issue of timing rather than time.  Usually, the money and time are available, but by the time money is budgeted and sessions are scheduled, I usually have already taught myself beyond what the class would offer.

Good and evil: wrap them up and disguise it as people.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I usually have already taught myself beyond what the class would offer.

It depends on the user. Someone like you or me may pick it up faster and wouldn't really need a class, but there would be things that were discussed in the class that you and I are not aware of. I taught myself how to use this program a long time ago. Even though now that I'm up to speed with most everything about the program. I still learn something new everyday in it. I don't think there is one person out there that knows every single thing about this program. You only know what you do. The Engineers that build sheet metal parts, probably have no idea how to build a mold or creat a solid from a closed surface in SW (NO OFFENSE to anyone) Again - You only know what you do. Being in my position I have to know, or know someone that does know the answer to the many questions I get every day. So even though I have gotten tons of information from the job I'm in no. I do know for a fact that training would have help me when I was learning this program many years ago. I praise myself for learning the way I did and at the fast pace. I also praise anyone that wants to learn it themselves but I know that the time frame for teaching yourself vs having training, it's faster getting the training. Plus since Time is money I still feel the training is the better choice.

Best Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I know my experience is not typical of most.  I am able to work in such a manner that my job performance is maintained while I devote a percentage of time to professional development.  I encourage those around me to do the same.  Part of my responsibilities include mentoring and staying on top of CAD developments.  Time spent "playing" with the tools usually pays off in more effective and cohesive work.  My boss understands and supports this.

I am not trying to minimize the value of formal classroom training.  I've noticed that in many cases it is much more time- and cost-effective to have training on the worksite, with trainers who are able to come in and tailor the training to the needs of the users at that site.

I agree that the learning never stops.  That is the main reason I spend so much time on this forum.  It is especially helpful to me to see what problems others that work in different industries are having.  It helps broaden my knowledge.

One distinct advantage to off-site training is that the students are able to focus 100% on training without project managers barging in with "emergencies".

Good and evil: wrap them up and disguise it as people.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I disagree with training in the workplace.  I think training is much more effective if you can do it off site.  There are less interruptions and you tend to be more focused on the task at hand.

I do agree that it's more a matter of timing than time.  It seems that I can never get away to do anything, I am always on one project or another.

I learned SW via the tutorials, being self-taught.  I think I spent 1 hour a day for almost 2 weeks.  After that, it was just a matter of constant application and use of the program to get more efficient at it.  If there was something I didn't know or forgot, the help files were always there.  Of course, as Scott has said, you really only know what you do.  I still have trouble with surfaces, just because 90% of my work involves sheet metal.  I wish I was in an environment where I could have more exposure to swoopy stuff.

MadMango
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities."
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

(OP)
If you had a manual it would help you, trust me.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Wow, this is a hot issue!!!

BTW: AutoCAD has to print manuals every rev. how the heck would anyone figure it out otherwise?  Now don't go getting all hasty - just kidding

Seems to me SW has pretty much done all combinations of all your suggestions from time to time.  The printed manuals are virtually identical to the on line help anyway.  I have to agree with Scott, I have a cabinet full of SW manuals (including training manuals) which I rarely if ever open.  I guess the best approach would be send one with each NEW seat.  From then on we should be able to deal with on-line help and what's new.  That's the way all software seems to be going.  Hardcopy is so much more expensive to produce AND SHIP than CDROMs.  "$25-$30" multiplied by over 250,000 seats is a S@#%& load of cash that can be better spent elsewhere.  Also I have to consider that pretty much I am in front of the computer whenever I need a manual for the software.  Perhaps making it easier to find certain bits of information might be nice.

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

But isn't 250,000 Seats * $5,000 a seat even a much bigger pile of cash.  SW can afford it and it would cost them no more than a few dollars a seat.

my $.02

DG

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

I tried doing a keyword search on one of my printed Pro/E manuals.  No results yet.

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Its called an index...

RE: Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!

Actually, a keyword search goes a little farther than an index.  Indexes are manually compiled, and thus no better than their compilers and editors.

More than once I have found what I needed by keyword search when the index has failed me.

Good and evil: wrap them up and disguise it as people.

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