R-12 vs R134a
R-12 vs R134a
(OP)
Is there any way to differentiate between the two (in an a/c system)? I bought a '89 Blazer with a new compressor and accumulator/dryer and it's low. I don't want to add the wrong type and lock up the compressor. I'm too lazy to drain it and start all over. It doesn't have the larger quick-connect type fittings, but I find it hard to believe they put R-12 in it.





RE: R-12 vs R134a
Why do you find it difficult to believe that R-12 could be in it? R-12 is still available on a limited but costly basis.
"I am too lazy..." What a statement to make in an engineering forum.---
You want US to sort it out for you!
Rod
RE: R-12 vs R134a
RE: R-12 vs R134a
Shaun TiedeULTRADYNE Arl,TX(stiede@ev1.net)
RE: R-12 vs R134a
Rod
PS---The Dodge/Cummins was converted with the Castrol kit about four years ago and is still functing well. It was 118f here yesterday.
RE: R-12 vs R134a
Shaun TiedeULTRADYNE Arl,TX(stiede@ev1.net)
RE: R-12 vs R134a
Also, make sure whoever changes your system over holds vacuum for at least 30 min to boil off as much humidity as possible, humidity in your system is also an enemy.
RE: R-12 vs R134a
RE: R-12 vs R134a
RE: R-12 vs R134a
only if you are carefull and informed or lucky!
Otherwise you can pay a lot and get very little.
I have done two bare-bones 134a retros so far. Both work great! The '89 Aerostar dual-air has original compressor and works pretty well. I flushed way too much money paying "professionals" to fix it previously- (would hold a charge for about a year), this time I just used the new oil, a seal conditioner/stop leak additive, and the fittings. Works great so far!
The '91 Buick Century ran low on R12, so I did the same- so far, so good!
On both units, most "professional" shops would charge many hundreds of dollars (US) for a fairly minimum job. Add $400-600 for new compressor if they felt it was needed.
Not my car you don't!
Jay Maechtlen
RE: R-12 vs R134a
RE: R-12 vs R134a
" R-12 and R134a oils are incompatable"
but Interdynamics claims, on http://www.id-usa.com/faq2.htm
(an FAQ) that there are acceptable upgrade paths.
Also see
http://www.id-usa.com/oils.htm
"Pressurized Ester Oil Charge for R-134a"
The Ideal Lubricant for All Retrofitted and Factory Installed Systems
EZ-to-Fill System
All Oil Charge Cans Use Same Acme Threaded Can Top as R-134a Refrigerant Cans
Easily Dispensed with the Same 134a Can Tap Valve and Hose or R-134a Manifold Gauge Set
Single viscosity for Minimum Inventory
Compatible with R-12 and R-134a Systems
Miscible with Residue of Mineral Oil and Stable with All Levels or R-12
Less Absorption of Moisture than PAG Oils
No connection with the company, but they have some very well-written material on the site. And- seems to work.
Jay Maechtlen
RE: R-12 vs R134a
In my personal experience so far---No problems with oil compatability---no problems with dryer/accumulator contamination---no hose problems with "molecular migration" ( a bogus idea, the "boogy man" IMO)---no "freez ups" due to moisture contamination---no compressor failures---no leaks save one Shrader valve replacement.
I feel for the PRO shops in this but, in most cases I see the conversion kits at Wal-Mart or Pep Boys (Autozone, whatever!) work a majority of the time if installed by any reasonably equipped car nut, ie. at least a couple of warm brain cells. If the pro shops around here would charge a reasonable price , taking into account overhead, liability, labor, etc. costs there is a "ready" market out there, ie. the majority that lack the above warm brain cell qualifications.
Rod
RE: R-12 vs R134a
yeah, I seem to recall something about that...
I guess my brain cells weren't warmed up yet!
cheers
Jay
Jay Maechtlen
RE: R-12 vs R134a
RE: R-12 vs R134a
From the point of view of any professional shop I guess the idea of the DIYer is not particularly welcomed. I don't know what to say to that.
As to the R-12 being the root of the "hole in the ozone", after several years of wide spread restrictions on the use of flouro carbons including R-12, you would think we would see a substantial improvement in the situation, would you not? Funny, last I looked it was getting worse!
Rod
RE: R-12 vs R134a
Convert the fittings, a quick pumpdown, load the new oil, seal conditioner, 134a, and you're done!
top the refrig every year or two, and you're fine.
ozone hole? well, not all the CFCs have migrated out and broken down yet, perhaps. I don't know what the transport time is, or how much CFCs still need to get broken down.
Anyway- for MOST car owners, a simple conversion should be ok- but they should have someone do it because MOST ownes have little or no clue about the process...
cheers
Jay Maechtlen
RE: R-12 vs R134a
Total cost---$29+tax Castrol kit---hose $15---fan belt ?---one box of Band Aids and a tube of Neosporin ointment
Rod
Rod
RE: R-12 vs R134a
My '89 Aerostar started getting leaky at 4-5 years old?
I forget, but it was out of that part of warranty...
converted at 155,000 miles, quite recently.
My 80(?) Fairmont held refrigerent fine- but the compressor died at ~80,000 miles, and I never fixed it.
'89 Century - compressor died at ~150,000 miles.
'91 Century - leaky at ~110,000 miles, converted at 130,000 miles.
Funny how some systems seal perfectly, others just refuse to!
Jay Maechtlen
RE: R-12 vs R134a
RE: R-12 vs R134a