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SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

(OP)
I am finding that SW policy on bugs stinks. They tell you even if a command doesnt work right but the results is partially there live with it, because there is a work around. Or what is better you have to do 20 steps to get the software to do something versus a functions 2 steps if it worked right, but that is okay for you Mr. User because you can still do it. They do not care if it slows you down or the results are confusing or not exactly as they should be. Case in point I found a bug on outputting drawings in dxf mode with hatching, it would cause a unhandled error. The fix they told me is to save as a ACAD R13 version not a newer version. Hello maybe my client doesnt accept R13 versions. Oh and since it will work with R13 it is not that important.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Maybe it's time to switch to a CAD system that doesn't require any workarounds.

FYI below is a far-from-comprehensive list of CAD systems that also require workarounds, so don't consider any of the following:
SolidEdge
AutoCAD & Inventor
UG
Pro/E
CATIA
IDEAS
IronCAD
BobCAD
Delcam

I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

(OP)
dear Tick,
Maybe you should expect better service. If its broken its broken, you would not have a car manufacturer tell you, oh dont worry sometimes your car will start and sometimes it won't when you turn the key. If not then you need to hotwire so it will. That is a work around.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

well, Id rather my lemon car get fixed with a service pack, instead of a recall ....  :p

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Well,

I have to agree with Rocko. However, until software people are actually held accountable in a legal sense for advertised/claimed functions not working properly, then the problem will not end.

SWorks, PRO/E, ACAD etc. even though not perfect, are still worth what people pay for them, because using these products saves people time and money. Therefore, there is still an economic advantage to buying an imperfect piece of software as opposed to doing without.

In other words since software is very useful and it seems everyone puts out buggy software, buggy software will be purchased and a boycott is pointless. Lawsuits and legal punishments should be the tools used.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

TheTick is right.  Every CAD system has its issues and work arounds.  Every CAD company has its priority list for bug fixes.  Unfortunately it only becomes a BIG issue when the bug or enhancement they put low on their list happens to be the one that I use a lot and is critical to me.

As it turns out (and I have been through MANY CAD systems) the grass always looks greener until you jump the fence and find the little brown piles were merely hidden from your previous viewpoint.  When you are standing in the middle of them you still have to dance round them - but they are now in different but equally inconvenient places! (And farmer Fred is no quicker than farmer Bob with his pooper scooper.)

I don't like it, maybe it ain't right, but I have learned that it is not something I can change.  I have grudgingly accepted it and my blood pressure, stress level and marriage are so much better these days.  (I should have said my second marriage is so much better than my first....)  

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

I think its a pain in the ass does a software release that needs an spr mean it doesnt work of course it does.
Its virtually an admission of fault, theres a problem and they fix it ,of course we all make mistakes but when software is costing the price of a very small car if there was a fault with that car youd take it back, sprs are a get around on the software vendors part and have become a way of life in the software community it stinks

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Rocko and sirmick,
I am sorry you guys feel that way.  When I run into a big problem, I call my VAR. They do everything they can to help me and always have.
I have tried to write small Visual Basic software programs and it is no easy task. Especially when you are trying to have others use it. They will always push the wrong button; enter data that you never expected. With the SolidWorks program as big as it is, it is bound to have some issues. I am just glad that my VAR is there to help me.

Bradley

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Despite my initial smart-aleck response, I would like to help.  You may contact me directly at the email address listed in my profile, if you wish.

I deal with import/export problems almost daily.  One thing I have learned is that the source file (SW, Pro/E, UG, any other) is not always ideal for export.  It's never as simple as what-you-see-is-what-you-get (WYSIWYG) in any system.  Sometimes it takes time and collaboration on both ends to find the right combination of export settings.

Ideally, in an import-export situation, parties on both ends work together to ensure that all information is passed accurately.

With drawings, I find PDF format works well to provide a good snapshot of what the drawing should look like when comparing intended DXF/DWG output.  PDF995, available at www.pdf995.com, provides the abillity to make PDF's for under $10.  There's always eDrawings, too.

If your client accepts DXF but not ACAD13, can I assume that the final destination is not ACAD?  You didn't say.  Talk with your client and find what he is using.  Maybe there is an alternate format that may work.  The ultimate goal is to provide accurate information, is it not?

For the sake of providing accurate export, I often make temporary files modified to make them more suitable for translation.  In your case, try making a copy the drawing and remove the hatching before exporting.  Provide an eDrawing or PDF to show where hatching should go.  Also, maybe your client can install SW viewer.

I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Rocko

95% of the changes made in SolidWorks 2004 were user requested. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like SolidWorks is actually listening to what people say and trying to incorporate the changes people want.

You should also remember that CAD software is ridiculously complex and has to operate on top of Windows, which is also ridiculously complex, which has to work with the computer hardware, which is also ridiculously complex. Fixing a bug is not 5 minute job (whereas bitching on a forum in an unhelpful manner is). You have informed SolidWorks of the bug and they have very probably given it a priority rating. Sorry, but the only reasonable thing you can do is wait and actually give them a chance to fix the problem.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Nathan,

Where did you hear that 95% of changes made in 2004 were user requested? Hopefully not in the same press release that stated that 2004 is now available for release in 12 different languages.  Heck the Pre-Release is not even available yet.

To the original post,

Bugs are a fact of life with software.  I am in a department that develops software for our internal users.  Being that our end users have the same focus it is a little easier to write the program the way they need it to work.  SolidWorks has to design the software for all different walks of life.  In doing so they are going to run into glitches and problems that are only found when the real world uses it.

I do however think SolidWorks needs to get more beta users (Real World Users) involved in the future releases.  This may help minimize a great deal of bugs.

BBJT CSWP

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

I disagree. Bugs don't HAVE to be a fact of life for software.

However, in a market driven economy where software manufactures are not held accountable for bugs that prevent the software from working as advertised, then there is not any incentive for bug-free software. Especially since the cost of switching software is far more than the mere purchase price.

There is, obviously, many incentives to reduce the number of bugs. But there appears to be diminishing returns on bug hunting in general.

Solidworks is still a vastly useful program, bugs and all.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

(OP)
Well, since i started this thread i guess i should weigh in. I think what SW needs to do is always make sure that a SPR that fixes one thing does not break another. I think this is just good resource and time management.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

You still haven't told us what the final destination app is.

Have you considered 3rd party translation?

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

In a perfect world yes.  In the real world I do not know if it is possible.  I am not defending SW by any means.  I am just looking at it from the devolpers end.  If these were just SolidWorks developers with their fingers in the pie, developing for one group of individuals, I would probably tend to agree with you.  If you go under your Help pull down, then select About SolidWorks you will see all the different companies involved in the development of SW.   Some are responsible for mating, some for assembly motion\collision detection, etc.

Again if they were devolping one engineering firm they would probably have the most bug free stable program out there.  But the reality is they are devolping software that is used world wide.  

Software is software.  It is developed by human beings.  Human beings make mistakes.

I hear and often feel your pain.  Nothing sets me off more than receiving a fix and having it break something else.  If it is something obvious that broke, ok, then I say hang them high. But I still think it impossible to test for everything possible that you, I , and the guy/gal down the road might do.

Just my 2 cents worth.

BBJT CSWP

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

I just translated some test drawings with crosshatching into DXF, ACAD R13, and ACAD R14.  I imported each of these into ACAD R14.  No problems.

Maybe it's your setup?

From the sounds of it, you aren't really interested in an actual solution to your situation.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

(OP)
No, my VAR and 2 other people have been able to duplicate the crash. I was outputting to dxf R2000-2002 in options this would cause problem. I just removed hatching and sent the file ok.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

How does anyone know that this is SolidWork's fault? ATi and Nvidia both have a monstrous amount of bugs in their drivers. Should we blame them for having crappy drivers when the majority of bugs in their drivers are due to applications being poorly coded or having compatibility issues. So its not really their fault at all. SolidWork's could just as easily be suffering from a similar problem.

I think we would all like bug free software, but SolidWorks has to balance stability and innovation. Some of us might be happy if SolidWorks 2005 only squashes bugs, but I'll bet that a lot of people will be pissed that the money they gave SolidWorks has not gone towards adding new features. Or we could get Inventor 7, which is still buggy AND has no new features. :P

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Does anyone still get that annoying "solidworks has terminated unexpectedly due to an unhandled error" message that happens every now and again or some days three times a day.SOMETIMES IT SAVES A BACK UP OF 2 HRS WORK SOMETIMES IT DOESNT.
just wondering how a software package can BE SAID TO BE TWICE AS PRODUCTIVE or BRING A PRODUCT TO MARKET FASTER

what this equates to in my life at the minute is

"twice as productive "cos i did it twice, of course if ive done it again i have been twice as productive

or

BRINGS PRODUCTS TO MARKET FASTER well if ive done it twice
and could have used a software app that didnt quit after i done it the first time maybe but after the second time round i dont think this is statement is quite truetrue.

admittedly it is faster second time round as i knew what i was doing this time so maybe

a more honest "1/4 faster than traditional cad systems" and "improved design due to thinking out the problem twice and picking all your previous mistakes second time round" would be a better marketing slogan im sure if the marketing people got hold of that they could turn it into some marketing campaign in 5 words or less

more stability is what we need

oh its  a hardware problem ?
say the VAR s even though its the same equipment they and we both use and have the same problems.

THEY KNOW THE PROBLEMS THEY KNOW THE TRUTH

If they told us what the real problems would we be happier or would we all migrate from solidworks

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

G1DESIGN

I am still getting the unhandled error message with SW2003 and it is very annoying. It used to be if I opened a random part done with SW2001 (that I had previosuly been able to open with SW2003) it would hang, then crash giving the error. After that the part would never open again and I would have to do it again from scratch (fine for small parts, not for big parts). Lately though it has started doing it with newer models done with SW2003. I have reinstalled it several times but can't seem to shake it off.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Does anyone still get that annoying "solidworks has terminated unexpectedly due to an unhandled error" message that happens every now and again or some days three times a day.

Try checking out "trouble shooting acrash prone system" at either SW KBA or http://www.frontiernet.net/~mlombard/ under rules of thumb.

Unhandled errors could be hardware but they could be software. Just calling your VAR and asking him why isn't going to be good enough because Unhandled are very random. Just like the error message says "Unexpectdly". There are things to check out and that article is the first step to trying to find the reason or reasons.

SOMETIMES IT SAVES A BACK UP OF 2 HRS WORK SOMETIMES IT DOESNT.

The reason it does save sometimes and not others is not because of the time you have put in but the amount of rebuilds you have made. The option in your tools\OPtions says "Save suto recovery info every XX changes." A  Change is you clicking the rebuild button. If you have it set to 10 then you have to click your rebuild light 10 times before it will make a auto backup. I don't use auto backup unless I have to. I use Crtl-S all the time. Because you never know when it will crash due to an unhandled error. So your better off saving more often.
 
oh its  a hardware problem ?
say the VAR s even though its the same equipment they and we both use and have the same problems.


I'm not defending your VAR in any way! I just wonder how close the machines are but yet how different they are being used and software being installed.

If you use the exact same hardware make sure they are running the exact drivers as you are. Are you working over a network vs. your VAR? Do you install lots of software off the web? You might need to refresh your registry. If that's the case look at my FAQ559-507.

Even though you maybe using the exact same hardware doesn't mean that it still couldn't be your hardware. You might have a fault board or memory chip that is causing errors.

THEY KNOW THE PROBLEMS THEY KNOW THE TRUTH

If they told us what the real problems would we be happier or would we all migrate from solidworks


I don't have many problems running SW, so i don't feel that there are alot of problems like you seem to think there are. Some people will agree with me and some won't, but I think your problem with crashing is in the system either hardware or software. Since I don't have any information there is no way to tell you the problem. Check out that article above and see if any of the information helps, but read all of it.

Scoobystu

I am still getting the unhandled error message with SW2003 and it is very annoying. It used to be if I opened a random part done with SW2001 (that I had previosuly been able to open with SW2003) it would hang, then crash giving the error. After that the part would never open again and I would have to do it again from scratch (fine for small parts, not for big parts). Lately though it has started doing it with newer models done with SW2003. I have reinstalled it several times but can't seem to shake it off.

You should also check out the article I asked G1DESIGN to check out. If you go through all of that and still are crashing then you need to check out these FAQ559-507, FAQ559-488. If you still have problems call your VAR explain what you did and see what they say then.

Best Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Then through drivers into the mix.  Oh yeah, what about all the programs like Outlook, AutoCAD, Weather Bug, network software, anti-virus....running in the background. With all the different hardware configs, driver versions, software versions, and applications running on a computer, I think it is amazing that they function as well as they do.

One thing everyone may want to take a look at is the temp directory found under C:\Documents and Settings, Your Login, Local Settings, Temp.  Clean it out, if not every day then every other day.  By clean it out I mean wipe everything out but the SWxauto folder.  The SWxauto folder is where your autosave is stored.  2003 does not seem to do good house keeping in this temp area.  I have our users create a shortcut on their desktop.

Hope this helps someone.  

BBJT CSWP

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Shortcut good idea!! I didn't think about having my users make a shortcut to the Local settings folder. I will now though thanks that helped me. Only if they have admin rights though.

Cleaning out the Temp folder is in that article I mentioned above along with numerous other things to look at and try.

,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Speaking of rights if anyone goes to their hardrive and can not find C:\Documents and Settings, Your Login, Local Settings, Temp, you can go under the Tools, Folder Options, then click on the veiw tab and select Show Hidden files and Folders.

BBJT CSWP

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

OK … I may be (age) dating myself but what the heck.  I keep hearing the software doesn’t do this, or the software doesn’t do that, or the software isn’t fast enough, or it takes to long for me to create that … C’mon gang … it beats pushing a pencil !!!

I can remember way back when, when it would take me several weeks to draw some of the design’s & assemblies that now only takes me hours or at worst case a couple of days.  And that’s not including FEMA, Tolerance Studies, etc.

Software glitches are inherent with any computer program, so we’ll just have to grin and bear with it.  After all we’re only human and human’s make mistakes.  Now repeat after me the prayer to the all powerful Software God’s …

O’ Great & Powerful Software God’s ….
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things I can;
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Have a nice Day ... :)

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Cheeseburger,

How many post are you going to copy this into?  So what if people vent every once in a while.  I have in the past and most likely will in the future.  If you read the whole post you will see a lot of good suggestions that came from the original vent.

"Have a nice Day... :)"

BBJT CSWP

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

BBJT ...

Relax Dude ... don't get yourself all worked up over nothing.  Christ ... it's only a web-board, what do you care how many times I post something ???  How many times are you gonna post to this message ???

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Seems like the whole point of this thread was to get excessively worked up over a minor problem.  I prefer to save such anxiety for real problems.

I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

I get paid to solve problems.  I solve a lot of problems visting these help groups and try and return the favor.  

I consider myself fairly relaxed with a great life and a great job.  Actually your last post helped remind of that and I thank you for that. :)

  

  

BBJT CSWP

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

(OP)
I have found all comments entertaining and helpfull. I have used in my lifetime 8 cad packages so i know all about the problems inherit with them. My reason for the posting was to see if others felt as i did that the software companies should make sure that the features work like they are suppose to. It is too bad that SW could not give you feedback on your SPR as to how many other people have reported the issue and where it ranks on their to do list. Then as users we could see the progress they are making trying to fix our issue. Well since i started the thread i would like to pronounce it dead.

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

Listen to TheTick and several other posts.  It is mathematically impossible to test (ANY) software code this complex (and hardware combinations anyone?) and catch every possible bug.  In fact all the CAD companies do an amazing job when you really look at the shear size of the task.  They are (all) doing their best.  Maybe not ideal for any individual user, but....  In software this complex, with so many possible interactions, it is not as simple as you might expect to just "fix one bug without breaking something else".  Just to give you a sanity check, back in the (good/bad?) old days of products like Computervision CADDS 3 (top of the line!), the entire multi user system ran on a 300 MB disk.  That's OS, Application software, user temp space and data storage, etc.  They had what? over 300 programmers back in Bedford (that's about one man-year of Software every day!).  There were way more bugs and crashes, etc. And it was all proprietary hardware under their control!!  Also you were looking at $250k to $1M per installation - $1,500 just for the proprietary workstation furniture...  One set of workstation hardware alone cost 20 to 50 times what your entire PC and software cost today.  Then the capabilities were a mere fraction of what today's CAD systems can do. I don't think we all appreciate quite how well off we are today.

Again, there are bugs, I don't like it, but I am realistic in my expectations.  That doesn't mean I don't complain sometimes - I just try to keep it to realistic proportions.

Here's an example.  There is one very basic bug that I have complained about often since SW2000 at least and has never to my knowledge been fixed.  It has been verified by both the VAR and SW.  Try making a sketch line equal to another in a sketch on a plane at an angle to it or an edge at an angle.  The length will not be equal, but the projected lenght (L cos a).  Now THAT's a fundamental BUG ladies and gentlemen (and in my humble opinion, unforgiveable not to fix it).  Anyone from SW paying attention?

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

I agree with the tick maybe there should be a little corner of eng tips where you can just go and whinge and whine about anything and just stick to the topics in the solidworks section (i am a hipocrite yes)

RE: SPR's and Work Arounds What a JOKE!!!!

If that's the case you and anyone that wants to join you, can pay Eng-tips so much a month and start a new SW Complain group. You can find the link above in the border in the top "NEW Eng-Tips Groups"
http://www.eng-tips.com/groups.cfm

But I think if anyone wants to complain they are in the right NG.

Just my .02 worth...no harm intended in this post just a suggestion.

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

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