Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
(OP)
I hold nothing but an interest in Aerospace, but I wanted to ask for opinions on the recent announcements by Emirates and Qatar Air to purchase new fleets from Airbus rather than Boeing.
What impact does this have on the future of Boeing? With the new JSF going to Lockheed/Martin, will Boeing find themselves out of work in the next decade? Is this loss of $24b something Boeing was predicting?
I hope not. Boeing has such a proud tradition, I hope they don't go the way of others like Douglas, Bell, Republic, or North American.
What impact does this have on the future of Boeing? With the new JSF going to Lockheed/Martin, will Boeing find themselves out of work in the next decade? Is this loss of $24b something Boeing was predicting?
I hope not. Boeing has such a proud tradition, I hope they don't go the way of others like Douglas, Bell, Republic, or North American.





RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
F-18, F-15, Delta rockets, 7X7 airliners, satellites, etc...
T
It's not going anywhere.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
But, it indeed has plenty on its plate and many products and systems that will need the company to be around for a long time.
TTFN
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
I assume the usual business practices for such high value ticket items will have played a role , like high level governement interferences , major maintenance aid packages not included in the official deal , delivery schedules that were more fitting , existing fleet composition etc etc.
Although I personally fear that Boeing has made some strategic mistakes concerning their civil aircraft development options , leading them to lost time + revenue = competitor advantages.
However , I saw on TV a documentary on the very hyped international rivalry between Airbus and Boeing and their respective futures. The diplomatic conclusion was the behind the sales of the planes , 30% of the components for each Airbus plane was imported from the US , and Boeing used 30% of european imports in his own civil aircraft lines , while the engines were evenly manufactured between both area's. The other diplomatic conclusion was that the next generation of aircrafts would be Supersonic Widebody's , so costly that international cooperation would be required between Japan , USA and EU , just to break even on development costs , Boeing nor airbus being able to fund the development of such a high tech plane.
So I suppose the future of aviation lays in cooperation between sake , bourbon and wine/beer/cherry/porto drinkers.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
Development cost for such a large, complex aircraft could severely hurt their pocket book, although their respective governments will ensure their eventual success.
Don’t get me wrong, Phil has made his share of mistakes (I don’t like hearing the phrase “Chicago based Boeing”).
Just my "layman" 2 cents.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
As for Boeing, Alan Mulally (CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes) announced that the company had scrapped plans to build a futuristic Sonic Cruiser (I am guessing it would have competed with the A380) in favor of a 250-seat, fuel efficeint convertional airliner.
It looks like the little guys (Embrair, Saab, Etc.)may be knocking on the back door and taking a large piece of the pie, one crum at a time.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
As far as that new fuel efficient 250 seater, Boeing is looking for places to build the manufacturing plant right now. The I think the plane is dubbed the 7E7 "Dreamliner". One of the cities I live near has presented a proposal to Boeing. I really hope they manage to secure the project, because nothing is better than seeing brand new beautiful planes rolling off the tarmac during your drive to work!
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
That 'US JSF project' seems to become pretty international , given that the Germans and British now are also discussing a similar agreement to replace all their combat aircrafts , if parts of it is totally subcontracted to their respective country , leading to a still decreasing cost per plane for everybody involved.
Airbus has never been intended to make any profit up until recently , when it was 'privatised'. It has been a financial black hole for most of his career , only meant at developping a new european integrated airspace industry from the ground , with local blue and white collar jobs in the end run , instead of unemployement benefits draining the treasury. The fabrication process dispersed over many european countries is a perfect example on how inefficient a production process can be organised , but 40 000 people over 10 european countries are now directly employed by Airbus , not counting all the subcontracted items that are also allowing 1000's other to have a living. Not a bad achievement , considering that they now have 50% of the worldwide civil aircraft business in their pocket , versus zero 30 years ago. The result of long term political decision making on a supranational level.
Airbus says that they now have over 125 firm orders for their new A380 superjumbo , orders being firm because already having received a formal down payment , which is an unicum in the civil aircraft history , given that the plane doesn't even exist and doesn't even have done a single test flight. The salesmen of Airbus must be pretty convincing , or the clients believing that the project must be technically doable and of absolute necessity for their future market requirements. I personally think it will be a good commercial succes for Airbus , given that the general manager stated that the break even development costs were estimated around 50 planes sold. Only the future will show who was right , but given from where Airbus did come , I wouldn't bet against it too rapidly.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
> no new airports
> make existing ones do more work.
SST's and the like fundamentally cannot carry as many passengers, thus requiring more cycles on gate usage, but there are inherent overheads of gate usage such as re-stocking, re-fueling. Additionally, the overhead of circling and taxiing pretty much nullifies any significant gains in actual transport delay.
The A380 approach, while causing perturbations in jetway and terminal modifications does allow more passengers moved per gate cycle and more passengers moved per takeoff/landing.
TTFN
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
Given the profit margins that boeing was earning per 747 ($20 million a pop) due to lack of competition on that segment , and the number of now operating jumbo's , the incentive to try to compete for Airbus must have been attractive in the final decision making process.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
The world's airlines are not in business to keep Boeing or any other US industry going. They buy whatever is best for their perceived needs - perceived because nobody knows for sure where civil aviation is going to be in 10 years time (or 6 months, come to that). So there's an arbitrary element in their decision to buy a particular type of aircraft.
I don't think any airline is going to buy a local product on the basis of national fervour - and if I was a shareholder I would be mighty peeved if they did.
Both Airbus and Boeing make good aircraft - they wouldn't be in business otherwise. Many US airlines fly Airbus; British Airways use mostly Boeing - this is normal and healthy and ultimately good for both companies.
Contriving a monopoly for Boeing may sound like good news for the US aviation industry but history tells us that competition keeps everyone on their toes.
I am interested in aviation but have no involvement with any aircraft manufacturer, airline or other agency.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
It is possible that Boeing bowed out of the super-large airplane market simply because they knew that there is simply not enough market for 2 such airplanes. So they decided not to risk the future of the company just to stay competitive.
But then again, Phil and the McD board has made some shortsight decisions in the past. Only time will tell.
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
RE: Emirates vs. Qatari Airlines
Boeing choosed the wrong way with its supersonic plane imo, eventhough I like those kind of aicrafts. They're not suitable for commercial use. They suffer heavy restrictions and cost alot.
Now, on both Airbus and Boeing visions of future market, I sincerly believe both visions are right. Both markets will develop, the regional market going faster though, as shown by most of the studies. High capacity long range travels (A380) come in a logical way when we think in terms of rentability and lowering of use costs. Plus, we have to admit that it has been proven more than once that a market can be "created". Look at the low costs airliners. They didn't exist a few years ago, and now they're taking their part of the cake. The A380 will make its hole.
Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer