×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice
2

PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

(OP)
We manufacture a couple of small cast aluminum pressure tanks that we are looking to sell in Europe.  Both tanks fall under the Sound Engineering Practice article of the PED.  The tanks are so old that we have no design or qual test documentation, only drawings and QA inspection test results.

Without having to wade through all of EN13445 or ASME VIII-1, what is the most expedient route to creating a technical file for these tanks showing SEP?  I have been unable to find anyone that can say "For your tank, you need to calculate this and test to spec XYZ".  The thought of looking through 712 pages of the EN13445 design spec alone is making me nauseous.

Thanks in advance,

-Mike

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

Vidaman

As far as we are concerned our notified body (Lloyd's Register) has advised us that for SEP items you do not need a technical file and you don't have to put a CE mark on them.

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

Vidaman,
        What Lloyds Register should have told you is that for SEP Equipment you are NOT ALLOWED to put a CE mark on them rather than "you don't have to".

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

(OP)
maxh and DSB123,

First, thanks for the input.  Second, do you know of anyone (i.e. consultant) that can help determine if these tanks comply with EN13445?  Right now we have no calculations or test data and feel it would be prudent to confirm that we meet the requirements of EN13445 prior to selling these tanks in Europe, even if a technical file is unneccessary.

Thanks again,

-Mike

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

try cross posting at the CEN/ECN  (eu standards) Code Issues

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

Contact COADE who offer their CodeCalc and PVElite software.  I believe they are contamplating include EN13445 in their software.

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

Raydel,
       Whessoe Technical Computing are not just contemplating including BS EN13445 into their PVE5 software but are busy doing it NOW. It should be incorporated later this year. PVE5 will then cover PD5500, ASME VIII and EN13445.

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

HI Raydel (Mechanical)

RE: EN13445, CODEWARE: THE HOME OF COMPRESS, AND OTHER SOFTRWARE VENDER IS INCLUDING THE EN13445 FOR THE NEXT RELEASE.

ALSO, FE-PIPE

Leonard@thill.biz
www.thill.biz

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

Vidaman,

You do not have to use a design code at all.

The important thing with the Pressure Equipment Directive is that you fulfil the Essential safety requirements of Annex 1.

Within these requirements it is considered acceptable to design by experimentation, hence, if you are unsure about using a design code then you should construct some tests that show compliance with the Essential Safety Requirements of the directive.

Regarding SEP, you CANNOT CE mark a vessel considered to fall into Sound Engineering Practice as defined in Article 3 Paragraph 3. Howevere, if you check out the definition of Sound Engineering Practice on the PED web site (see FAQs in the CEN forum) you'll come to the same conclusion that we have that, to cover risk you should design the vessel along the same lines as a CE marked vessel.

Therefore, it would be prudent to find a notified body and to get them to aid you in performing your tests. This would cover you against all consumer protection legislation in Europe (in Europe a worker/operator is considered to be a consumer and falls within this legislation, this means that in the UK the Consumer Protection Act is more important than the Health & Safety at Work Act).

I notice that a similar post has been placed in the CEN forum so I'll copy this post.

RE: PED Question: Claiming Sound Engineering Practice

(OP)
Fawkes,

I'm basically doing what you've outlined in your message.  We are drafting our own test specification that will address all the key design points of the vessel using ASME and EN requirements as a framework where applicable.

We are using the Hazard Assessment to guide development of both the qualification and continuous conformance test spec.  The Cat. I and SEP tanks will be treated equally in this regard.  We have also consulted with a Notified Body for their guidance.

You have confirmed for me that I am on the right track.  Many thanks!

-Mike

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources