Energizing Power Transformer
Energizing Power Transformer
(OP)
Hi All!
What is the correct or better way of energizing a 15/20 Mva, ONAN/ONAF, 69-13.8 KV, DYn1 Power Transformer serving at least feeders? Without Load or at least one (1) feeder is initially loaded? My concern is the inrush current. One guy advice me to energize with load to damp the inrush while another is saying, should be without load to minimize. Which is which.
Any comments or alternative method would be highly appreciated.
Thanks.
What is the correct or better way of energizing a 15/20 Mva, ONAN/ONAF, 69-13.8 KV, DYn1 Power Transformer serving at least feeders? Without Load or at least one (1) feeder is initially loaded? My concern is the inrush current. One guy advice me to energize with load to damp the inrush while another is saying, should be without load to minimize. Which is which.
Any comments or alternative method would be highly appreciated.
Thanks.






RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Anyone else have any comments?
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Michael Sidiropoulos
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
What could change, I think, is the duration of the inrush current. The magnetizing branch is highly inductive so its time constant (L/R) will be large. Adding some resistance to the ciruit via secondary load should decrease the time constant.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Michael Sidiropoulos
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
v(t)=L x di(t)/dt
Now, if a resistor is in parallel with the inductance L then the voltage v(t) cannot increase as much since the current will be flowing in the resistor in parallel thus reducing the inrush. Check the intent of MOV, back to back Zener diodes, snubber circuits, etc.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
And I don't believe you can add a resistor in parallel with the inductor(L, in Henrys) in the formula as stated, since there are no values of impedance present.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Perhaps, somebody out there could just share their method (which may not be perfect, but at least, its what they practice).
Thanks for all the post.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Any comments?
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
When you say you experience a 'heavy dip', does the voltage actually drop(primary and/or secondary?), or is this mostly associated with a change in the operating noise of the running transformer?
You say that if this transformer is energized from the secondary, no dip is experienced, but the same does not apply for the other transformer. Does this mean that there is no dip from the other transformer, or that there is a dip if it is energized from either the prinary or secondary?
What is connected(loads and sources) on the primary and secondary?
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
-They are paralleled primary and secondary (buscouplers on pri and sec).
-Secondary voltage drops enough for motor drive contactors to "drop out" at plants 7km and 32km away.
-My mistake, further enquiry reveals that the other trf does the same when re-energised.
-Source: 66kV via 47km of o/head delta line.
-Load: 25MVA worth of ore treatment plants (mostly DOL drives) and 5MVA of residential township.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
I think Gord and Sirido had the right answer. The inrush is entirely dependent upon the dc component of flux. If we include in our model a primary reactance in series with a parallel magnetizing reactance and load resistance, it can be shown the transient dc current in the magnetizing branch will decay faster as load resistance decreases.
It is a little bit of a cheat because the whole idea of the inrush depends upon the non-linearity of the magnetizing branch (saturation in presence of dc), but it's the basic idea I think.
Now on to Adar's question.
The magnetizing impedance is primarily inductive. It goes with N^2 (turns ratio squared). Primary impedance is factor of N^2 higher than the primary. So in steady state the magnetizing inductance of primary winding (with secondary open circuited) would be "equivalent" to magnetizing inductance of the secondary winding with primary open circuited.... so far no answers.
Now... look at the resistance. Not important in steady state but very important to inrush since it is what allows the dc to decay.
The resistance goes with N.
Remembering inductance goes with N^2....
we conclude the L/R ratio is factor of N higher on the primary... dc decays N times slower. Inrush lasts much longer. You probably had the same magnitude of inrush when energizing from the secondary only it didn't last as long.
Hey I found this fantastic link on the subject of transformer inrush. This guy must really know what he's talking about. (you'll get the joke if you look at it).
http://geocities.com/pschimpf/temporary_stuff/transformer_inrush_simulation.htm
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
GordS's explanation is correct. The irush is not dependent on the secondary impedance. Dandel is correct. The inrush is just magnetising current 12 - 15 times the FLC sustaining for about 300ms. Transformers are always switched on the high voltage side. Particularly interconnecting transformers in switchyards are switched on the higher voltage side becaiuse of the inrush.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
"The inrush is not dependent on secondary impedance."
"The inrush is just magnetising current 12 - 15 times the FLC sustaining for about 300ms."
Don't you think the duration can vary based on the following?:
transformer L/R
power system L/R
connected load (effect on decay of dc component)
Another question:
"Transformers are always switched on the high voltage side....becaiuse of the inrush."
My discussion above would suggest that the magnitude of the inrush current (referenced to hi-side) would be the same when energized from either hi or lo side.
In general the impact of that similar-magnitude in-rush current on low-voltage system would be less on when energized from the high side (because current doesn't have to flow from hi-side through impedance of a parallel transformer to get to low-side of the switched transformer), which seems like a good reason to energize from the hi side.
But I think (may be wrong.... looking for comments) that the duration of the inrush is longer when energized from the hi side based on L/R considerations described above. This would be a possible explanation for Adar's scenario, particularly if there is high supply system impedance (low fault levels) on his high voltage system which help to create the voltage drop. (I realize the total impedance from supply to low side is always more, but the duration would be the key). What do you think?
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
It is possible that the per unit voltage at transformer terminals is less when energized from low side than from hi side. One reason would be a pre-existing steady state reactive power flow through the parallel transformers, which depresses the per unit voltage of low side compared to hi side. Another reason might be different tap setting of the parallel transformers compared to the switched transformers, although we rule this out if it happens to both transformers.
Lower per unit voltage at transformer terminals when switched from low-side means lower dc component, less saturation, less inrush.
We might also consider the voltage drop associated with the inrush current itself as it travels through parallel transformer in establishing lower voltage at transformer terminals, but I'm not sure if that would lead me in a circle.
I think the dramatic L/R difference between hi side and low side and it's effect on duration of the inrush would likely be more significant than slight difference in per-unit voltage at terminals when comparing switching from hi and lo sides.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Now I'm wondering about the connection... probably delta on high side and grounded wye on low side. Will that make a difference? I'm not sure.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
The current has a shape that I showed in my link. Since there is a huge peak twice per cycle (different point in time and different magnitude for each phase), I would think that the excitation currents from three phases would not sum to zero. That also means the fluxes from excitatio currents would not sum to zero. But assuming 3-leg core form they pretty much have to. Leads me maybe to believe that if there is no path for current on the other (nonenergized) winding the peak excitation current would be limited. That in itself would seem to suggest that excitation current peak would be limited when energizing from the high side (no path for current on the secondary), but when energizing from the secondary (assuming there is a path for circulating current in a primary delta winding).
I'm not sure what to make of it.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
I tried to give a rule of thumb figure. A 220/110kV transformer will have a lower inrush current if switched on the 220kV side. However the current magnitude depends on where the switch closes on the ac voltage wave.
Now
Initial peak value Imax
=1000*h*Ac(Bres +2Bmax-Bsat) / (3.2*n*As)
h=effective length of the magnetising winding
n=Number of turns in series in the winding.
Ac=Cross sectional area of core
As=Effective cross sectinal area of the air-core magnetic field within the excited winding,ie. between the core and the winding
Bxx are the corrosponding flux densities.
Merlin Gerin gives a value for I(rms)
=SQRT[0.125*Ie^2*te(1-e-(2t/te)) / t
te =current damping time constant in seconds.(Time after which the current falls to 37% of its intial value.
Ie=maximum peak current
t=Time in seconds after which the current is considered to have reached its final value.
In general approximation is;
t = 3*te
I have carried out onsite experiments of inrush current on a 220/110kV interconnecting transformer 300MVA of a switchyard. Some dumb operators close on the 110kV side which has tripped my thermal unit at times.
If you have access try and read the following:
Gravett KWE: "Magnetising Inrush currents in transformers",MSc(Eng) Thesis, London Oct 1951
Finzi LA & Mutschler WH Jr: "The inrush of magnetising currents in signle phase transformers" AIEE Transactions 1951, Vol70,Part II pp 1436-1438.
Unless we practice designing transformers we only need to know first pass only rule of thumb (accuracy of course is of concern) figures. Thats what Consultants do??.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
I think we all apply combine some degree of direct observation, thumbrules, theory in these things. Sometimes I lean heavily on the theory when trying to think through questions like this on the board. Hopefully I make it clear which things I know and which I am just thinking out loud on.
I will say that the simple single phase simulation in the link I provided seems to reflect inrush current very well (the saturation curve could use a little tweaking to get higher peaks). Maybe it is not well presented but it is just a simulation of ac voltage suddenly applied to a real (nonlinear) inductor in series with resistance.
Regarding the original question of effect of load on inrush:
Gord and others have suggested that the presence of load changes the L/R time constant and therefore duration of the inrush. This makes good sense to me. It is my understanding of your first post that you disagree. (do you?)
Regarding hi-side vs low-side transient: I defer to your experience if you say that hi-side is higher. I believe it should be possible to analyse this from standpoint that peak magnitude depnds upon per unit inductance (even though non-linear, the fact that one side has lower per unit inductance indicates it will go into saturation sooner), and the decay rate depends on L/R. Rethinking my previous analysis I come up thinking that the per-unit L is same on both high and low-side and L/R is similar. There is one other factor I've not considered is that the low side may actually have two parallel windings internally (even though it's not evident from looking at the bushings. I think this may push it towards a higher inrush. At any rate even if the in-rushes are comparable on per-unit basis, the hi-side system is generally equipped to handle the inrush so energizing from hi-side makes sense as you say. Still leaves us unable to respond to Adar.
Regarding your thumbrule of inrush duration... I know there is substantial variation since generator stepup transformers still have saturated inrush peaking pattern up to 30 seconds after energization. I believe this varation from your thrumbrule is due to L/R characteristics of either the transformer or the power system.
Thanks again the discussion. Looking forward to more.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Thanks for the info. I agree in most of what you have stated.
But I am unable to digest the fact that the presnece of load changes L/R the time constant. In that case a secondary open circuited transformer will have its R to infinity. The time constant then is: L/infinity.
I appreciate your comments on (your) approach because I also like to understand the inner part of an explanation, theorical & practical reasoning.
I am not a transformer designer, but I would like to research more into the inrush.
I like your approach.
I like an answer from gord on the L/R. Just want to understand how L/R infleunces the inrush.
Regards
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
jbartos, it seems to me for the purposes of this question that v(t) and L are the constants and di(t)/dt is the quantity in question.
///Reference:
1. Gordon R. Slemon "Magnetoelectric Devices Transducers, Transformers, and Machines," John Wiley and Sons, Inc., 1966, Figure 3.4(a) Equivalent Circuit for Transformer on page 175 lends itself for the following relationships:
a) Eq.1 for the transformer with open secondary winding:
E1(t)=constant input voltage=R1 x i(t) + Lm x di(t)/dt
b) Eq.2 for the transformer with loaded secondary winding (sometimes the secondary may even be loaded with short circuit R2=0 Ohms)
E1(t)=constant input voltage=R1 x i(t) + [(Lm x LL)/(Lm + LL)] x di(t)/dt
Now, LL <<Lm<Constant, Henry; therefore, the term with di(t)/dt is much smaller in b) than in a). Consequently, the loaded transformer with R2=0 Ohms on its secondary, as the worst case, produces the smaller transient voltage than the unloaded transformer with R2 approaching to infinity.\\\
And I don't believe you can add a resistor in parallel with the inductor(L, in Henrys) in the formula as stated, since there are no values of impedance present.
///The formula stated was just and eng-tip. It is actually an essence of the inductive transient and a transformer equivalent circuit. Have you ever seen an equivalent circuit for a transformer? Also, I keep my belief for religeous places.\\\
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
I believe you are an engineer. Do you know the impedance voltage is the % voltage that you apply at the primary terminals with the secondary shorted. The secondary current is the full load current. So if Z% of the voltage produces FLC at the secondary (with secondary shorted), what do you think full voltage application at the primary will do to the transformer with the secondary shorted.
I have noticed your answers to some questions that harmonics produces vibration even in a generator.
If you think that transformers should be switched on with the secondary shorted, you are free to do so. But I am not.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
v(t)=L x di(t)/dt
to find a change in voltage: "the voltage v(t) cannot increase as much since the current will be flowing in the resistor in parallel thus reducing the inrush"
My question to you was, the voltage(along with the impedance) is a known factor [as expressed in your reference equation: E1(t)=constant input voltage=R1 x i(t) + Lm x di(t)/dt], and the unknown was the inrush current.
No one will argue that if you have less impedance in a circuit you would have less transient voltage(voltage drop). If you had zero resistance and zero inductance, you would have zero voltage drop. The question is, what is the current for a circuit with a known applied voltage and a known impedance. Use your equations to solve for i(t) with a known voltage, resistance, and reactance and perhaps we can arrive at the proper solution.
As far as your last paragraph, I understand that many people who use this forum are from different countries with perhaps different understandings for words used in common English. If you feel that religious issues were mentioned by me in this forum, rest assured that was certainly not my intention.
If, however, you feel that mentioning religious issues yourself(along with what appears to be an insult, excuse me if I'm incorrect), is appropriate here, then we do have a dissagreement.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Some more thoughts on the general question:
My simulation linked was unloaded tranformer. The resistance included there was intended to represent resitance of transformer windings and power system losses.
Someone made a good point that if use a simple mode of he non-linear magnetizing inductor in parallel with a resistance representing the load, then the solution is the sum of the two currents, by kirchoff's law.
The only way the external resistance can influence the magnetizing current is by changing the voltage across that non-linear inductance, which can only be done if we include series leakage reactance and winding resistance.
I will try a simulation of that. Won't have time until next week though. Hope to hear more discussion from all in the mean time.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
At peak voltage, the magnetic field has grown to it's maximum amplitude. As the excitation voltage falls off of peak, the magnetic field collapses, inducing a current into the coil, in the same direction as the excitation voltage. Current will flow in the same direction as the Excitation voltage intended, because of the collapsing magnetic field. As the Excitation voltage reverses direction, crossing zero, the magnetic field collapses faster, inducing peak current into the coil. If plotted, there would be zero current flow until the Sine wave reached peak voltage. As the voltage falls, the current will rise. As the voltage falls to zero, toward the opposite peak, the current peaks. As the Excitation voltage approaches peak, the magnetic field is nearly at it's maximum amplitude, the rate of change in the magnetic field causes the current to fall off, such that you have zero current at Peak Excitation Voltage again. As the Voltage falls off of the peak heading toward Zero, the Magnetic field collapses, again inducing current to flow in the direction that the Excitation Voltage intended. When the Excitation Voltage is at Zero, the Field collapses rapidly, causing current to peak again. As the Voltage rises toward the next peak, current falls off to zero.
This effectively causes the current to lag the voltage by ninety degrees, hence reactive. There is no tremendous inrush current because of the transformer. What current the transformer uses, is in the silicone steel laminated core of the transformer. In order for the magnetic field to build, the molecules of the laminate steel must align themselves magnetically north to south, as forced by the direction of the wire turns and by the Excitation Voltage. Saturation occurs when all the molecules that can align themselves have, a higher voltage will not increase the magnetic field. Heat is generated by the eddie currents of the silicone steel molecules as they move to align themselves, releasing their kinetic energy as they bump into one another. The steel is laminated to reduce this effect. Because the molecules align themselves and are nearly fluid with respect to their movement, the magnetic lines developing in the core are not necessarily straight and do in fact bend through the steel following the path of least reluctance created by those molecules that have or more nearly have aligned themselves.
For the purposes of this discussion, I'll go no deeper. E-mail me should reluctance be an issue in your design.
The mathematical models offered by another poster are just that, models. I particularly like his harmonics model, however his inrush model would only fit a switching power supply.
This day and age, most electronic office equipment, such as copiers, computers, UPS's and even the T-8 light fixtures all use switching power supplies. It is these connected devices that cause high inrush currents and outlandish harmonics effecting power quality.
The clear majority of these devices charge capacitors. A number 18 AWG Stranded TW conductor will see current spikes as high as 60 to 90 Amps of extremely short duration, considering power in the USA is 60 Hz. Many of these switching supplies operate around 5,000 Hz. To a power system, that can put unusual currents on the neutral. The National Electrical Code over the last few years has limited the System Neutral Reduction. Experience has dictated that in some instances the, Neutral is larger than the supply conductors. Now even though the switching currents are extremely high, they are normally of such short duration that the average heat generated within the conductors is well within range of the conductors and terminations. It is only the multiwire branch circuits that Neutral Conductor Harmonic currents become a concern. Steve4444
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
The more likely reasons for "observed" variation involves the randomness of the following parameters:
o The instant the transformer is "switched" on, i.e, zero or maximum volts!
o The magnitude of the residual magnetism, i.e., zero or maximum magnitude!
o The polarity of the residual magnetism, i.e., equal or opposite to the flux build up under "normal" conditions!
o The robustness or "stiffness" or impedance from the source of supply to the transformer, i.e., up to the HV or LV terminals!
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
Shortstub - no-one would argue with those effects. But I don't think the effect of L/R in determining the duration can be ignored. If we remove all R from the power supply circuit, transformer windings... also stray losses and hysteresis losses which can be modeled as R in equivalent circuit, then it seems to me inevitable that the dc component of the flux and dc component of magnetizing current would have no mechanism to decay and magnetizing inrush would last forever. (where would the energy go?... real power canot be carried by fundamental current which is 90 degrees from supply voltage, nor by dc or harmonic currents which are different frequency than supply voltage) Not a realistic situation, but it demonstrates that as we increase that series resistance associated with windings, power system, stray losses, the inrush duration must become shorter.
Resistances such as load resistance which are not in series are a little trickier to analyse... I'm not sure on those effects and will comment more next weekend.
I agree my initial comments on hi-side vs lo-side inrush were wrong.... based on an incorrect assumption about resistance as I discussed.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
With a clearer head and a much greater respect, I'm eating a lot of "Humble Pie."
Some years ago, I was investigating core hysteresis causes, permeability of materials and properties of the development of magnetic flux within the core materials in generators. I was also checking the validity of an expensive software product to predict these properties and map relative flux within the core. I did not realize that this too, was the topic of your discussion.
If I can contribute or have a question, I will not hesitate to respond. Until then I will follow your discussions as a casual observer, while I consume the pie on my face. Steve4444
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
When power is applied to the transformer primary again, it will not have to overcome the residual magnetism left from the last de-energizastion.
RE: Energizing Power Transformer
As a matter of fact to ameliorate the inrush problem, series resistors and aux contacts to bypass them, were fitted to the supply breaker. While it was not a common US practice, it was used in Europe!
Electricpete,
Don't overlook the role of ther other two phases!