Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
(OP)

If the angle of a drivetrain in a bicycle becomes steeper - ie 65degrees, will it become less efficient in comparison to normal flat drivetrain?





RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
Draw a free body diagram and work out the forces. There should be no difference between two chain drives as shown. These look like bicycles. That second one either has a tiny rear wheel, or the rider is perched way high up on a weirdly configured bicycle. These could affect speed and efficiency.
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JHG
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
If somebody presented experimental data that showed a measured difference in practice, I could be convinced.
How? Chain tension, sag, and related things would be different, depending on the direction of gravity. Imagine a very lightly loaded drivetrain, with an extremely heavy chain. I could be convinced that all the minute frictional losses would change with gravity direction in a measurable way.
Edited to add: Similarly, I could be convinced that frictional losses differ in the case of a horizontal arrangement, depending on which span of chain is driving the load, top or bottom.
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
I have a 200 hp motorcycle with a chain drive. In neutral, I can spin the rear wheel and its associated chain drive with one finger and that includes whatever bit of friction is associated with the brake caliper, the wheel bearings, the output shaft seal of the gearbox, and whatever bearings are inside the gearbox that spin with the output shaft.
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
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RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
No, there is no difference between the two configurations.
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
Friction because of going over extra rollers and bending the chain elements (which have internal friction) more times? Sure.
In the idealized frictionless world? The forces all balance. They MUST.
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
At a fundamental level, the inclined chain-set is doing more work than the horizontal one ... not much, but more.
At a fundamental level, the inclined chain-set is equivalent to a horizontal one and a vertical one.
Say you had two horizontal chain-sets, aligned opposite to one another so that the output shares the same axis as the input. You are not going to get 100% of the input torque at the output ... you CAN'T.
This has been "fun", but now we're just repeating our positions.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
I do not think so. Everything is symmetric (what goes up must come down) so gravity has no different effect in the two cases, even though the effect of gravity is insignificant in the first place. Why do you think there is a difference?
And you have not addressed the time dilation effect of the chain moving at differing velocities above and below the sprockets. :)
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
and I don't think the problem leaves the Newtonian world, but if you want to include relativistic effects ... "fill your boots".
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
This discussion takes a very simple question and just introduces unnecessary and confusing information that not does not help the OP the slightest bit.
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
So what I can take that there is a difference however it is negligible.
I appreciate all the comments. Thanks
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
Seems a bit unlikely. It is also unlikely that in the real world exactly horizontal is optimal, due to second order effects.
Of course one minute's experiment (and several hours of setting up) would solve this angels dancing on a pinhead question.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
I am clarifying what was posted on the thread. Both questions would provide a valuable answer to what I'm trying to find out.
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer
RE: Does the angle of a drive train effect the efficiency of energy transfer