Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
(OP)
I am planning to build a 47 acre reservoir/lake on my row crop farm in Mississippi in order to collect runoff rain water and store it for irrigation use. The earthen levee/dam that will be constructed will be approximately 26 feet high at its tallest point and approximately 240 feet wide at its base. I am trying to determine what type of pipe material would be best suited for the 16" wide suction pipe needed, as this pipe will need to run through the levee/dam's core structure near its base at the bottom of the lake to the pumping station on the other side of the levee. This 16" wide pipe will be approximately 240 feet in length and will be buried under 20 feet of the dirt levee. I am concerned about the pipe potentially cracking, breaking loose at joints, corroding, deteriorating, leaking, etc.
What type of large diameter (16") pipe material would hold together best in this environment and not likely leak under the settling weight of 20 feet of levee sitting on top of it?
Should I avoid ductile iron and/or smooth steel because of their possibility (or maybe likelihood) to corrode (particularly from the exterior)?
Should I avoid PVC due the possibility of the large glued joints breaking loose and leaking due to the foreseeable shifting and settling of the 20 feet of dirt above?
Would gasketed C-900 be a better idea since it is strong and won't corrode and can also be used with thrust restraint harnesses instead of large, glued joints?
Your thoughts and advice will be very much appreciated.
What type of large diameter (16") pipe material would hold together best in this environment and not likely leak under the settling weight of 20 feet of levee sitting on top of it?
Should I avoid ductile iron and/or smooth steel because of their possibility (or maybe likelihood) to corrode (particularly from the exterior)?
Should I avoid PVC due the possibility of the large glued joints breaking loose and leaking due to the foreseeable shifting and settling of the 20 feet of dirt above?
Would gasketed C-900 be a better idea since it is strong and won't corrode and can also be used with thrust restraint harnesses instead of large, glued joints?
Your thoughts and advice will be very much appreciated.





RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
One would think that you should have the expertise of a qualified professional to design and build the dam and that person should assist you with the pipe recommendation.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
The steel pipes can corrode and DI and PVC can crack. Anything with a mechanical joint can leak.
If you're worried about collapse perhaps insert the PE pipe inside a sleeve. A 16 inch pipe doesn't sound very big for such a large body of water though.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
https://damsafety.org/states
The size cutoff for jurisdictional dams is generally 25 feet high and 50 acre-feet of storage and it sounds like you will exceed both of these.
https://goo.gl/images/wZ7aGq
suggest you start by reading those regulations from your state to see what requirements they have for pipe penetrations.
The following types of pipe are commonly used for low dams. they have gasketed joints and can withstand a significant amount of pressure:
• Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel Cylinder Type, AWWA C300
• Concrete Pressure Pipe, Bar-Wrapped, Steel Cylinder Type, AWWA C303
Local state regulations would not allow either PVC or PE and glued joints would absolutely not be allowed. Encasement with concrete and surrounded by a filter diaphram would probably be required.
https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/20130726-1...
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
The engineer, who has assisted me with the planning and drawing of the design, does not seem to have a strong opinion one way or the other as to what type of suction pipe material should be used and has indicated that PVC with glued joints is very commonly used on projects like mine in the same county and that glued PVC would likely be fine for my project. The local pipe sales rep has also confirmed that he most commonly sees glued Schedule 40 PVC but also welded smooth steel pipe being used as buried (through the levee/dam) suction pipe in these irrigation reservoir projects. However, based upon my own research, it appears that the general consensus on this forum is that PVC with glued joints is highly discouraged.
You can imagine that I'm pretty concerned by the vastly different information that I've either read or been told, and I'm clearly not confident in making a choice of pipe material at this time. Any other recommendations or guidance that you all may have would be very greatly appreciated.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
Those with more experience in buried piping systems recommend unrestrained joints for buried piping because the earth will move and the unrestrained joints will adjust and not break.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
So, which types of pipe material would allow for unrestrained joints?
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
As cvg recommended, Concrete Pressure Pipe, Bar-Wrapped, Steel Cylinder Type, AWWA C303 is a good recommendation. Gasketed joints.
http://www.thompsonpipegroup.com/wp-content/themes...
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
I'm not questioning the comment that they are not acceptable, but just curious as to why not.
To me if you want the best of both worlds then use a concrete pipe to take the load / settlement etc then insert and grout in a PE liner for long term no leakage of the pipe.
I still think 16" is very small for such a large body of water.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
Agree that 16 inch sounds far too small for this application. I question why such a large reservoir with such a small water delivery system. I would hope there is a principal spillway which can handle the 100-year flood discharge which would probably be much larger than 16 inch diameter.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
As far as the 16 inch suction pipe through the base of the dam, I've been told by the irrigation system designer that the 16 inch suction pipe will provide sufficient water and pressure to the pump which will in turn send a sufficient amount of water with enough pressure to the main center pivot via a smaller 12 inch pipe.
Assuming it would be at full capacity, the reservoir's 411 acre feet of water will allow me to irrigate 493 acres of crops with 10 inches of water during the very hot central Mississippi summer.
My only real concern that I have here is in regard to the type of suction pipe to use that will run through the base of the dam and be sitting under 23 to 25 feet of dirt. After doing some research of my own and also reading your comments, I'm now scared to death of using PVC and glued joints, which is what had been previously presented to me as a good option. I will now be looking into the AWWA C303 pipe for sure.
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
http://www.nwpipe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/C...
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel
RE: Suction pipe through levee --- Schedule 40/80 PVC vs. C-900 vs. Ductile Iron vs. Smooth Steel