Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Professional behavior in the company with technicians
(OP)
Hi All
If one engineer works as a calculation eng (R&D) but he needs to collaborate with the technician of the laboratory ( who seems to be not so much friendly with graduated engineers , even hostile) whom shows too much curiosity at the engineer's activity, to know what he is doing and how (formulas, files , methods, etc) which is finally discovered that is for the caution, if the engineer goes away, the won't miss something.
how much should the engineer be reserved about his methods etc to have his job, and how could he have a good work relationship with this type of technician, that listens to the engineering office manager, but not to the engineers?
If one engineer works as a calculation eng (R&D) but he needs to collaborate with the technician of the laboratory ( who seems to be not so much friendly with graduated engineers , even hostile) whom shows too much curiosity at the engineer's activity, to know what he is doing and how (formulas, files , methods, etc) which is finally discovered that is for the caution, if the engineer goes away, the won't miss something.
how much should the engineer be reserved about his methods etc to have his job, and how could he have a good work relationship with this type of technician, that listens to the engineering office manager, but not to the engineers?





RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
One_engineer clearly doesn't respect the curious technician, and the technician doesn't trust One_engineer.
Said technician is understandably trying to understand what said engineer has been doing, possibly at the specific request of the engineering manager,
because said engineer will be leaving the company soon.
... the departure may be involuntary.
Said engineer and said technician are both employed by the company,
which expects them to be working toward a common goal.
If I were said manager, I would be looking to get rid of said engineer,
JUST BECAUSE said engineer will not, or perhaps cannot, explain his or her work
to said technician.
Some of the best engineers I know were formerly technicians, and became exceptional
engineers precisely because other engineers shared their expertise generously,
and mentored said future engineers.
Even technicians who will never become engineers, become much better technicians when engineers help them understand why they are doing what they are doing.
"Too much curiosity" suggests that One_engineer is insular and arrogant, and I suggest that he/she get their resume in shape; they will need it soon.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I know of some companies that always fire engineers just before their first complete year. They have a small core of long term employees and just churn the marketplace to burn engineers out and pick their brains with little to no interest in developing long term workers.
At the other end there are engineers who are such one-shots that they clamp down on everything in desperate fear they will be replaced with an Excel macro.
In my dealings with techs I have always wanted them to better understand exactly what they are working to accomplish. I haven't had many who went out of their way to ask ahead of time; most were actively discouraged by their managers because it stops them from their scheduled duties and they typically take their cues from QA to follow processes. Generally they appreciate the connection of their efforts to the theory behind it. It's been 50/50 that something I've said to the tech caused them to tell me that they understood why they'd had a problem or that something they said suggested a better alternative to what I had been expecting. (I once had to create a torque wrench from bar stock and a pull scale to reach a jam nut that was in a concave location where neither a crows foot or any other standard tool would fit. It was interesting to look at their faces as they realized what inch-pounds really meant as we tested the solution on the cal-lab torque tester. Another time a tech introduced me to self-drill/self-tappers, which was handy when the factory was pressured to ship before the tapped holes were added.)
I don't know about this case, but it sounds like a management failure in some area, which may overlap an engineer failure.
The tech should not be tasking an engineer. If there is a production problem that requires details like this then there should be an accounting for the distraction from the engineer's time. If the manager is trying to capture information, then they failed a long time ago to establish standards for doing so. All of it should have been captured at engineering reviews and explained to and reviewed by fellow engineers.
In any case, it seems like a hostile environment and there is no chance to change it. As always, update the resume and begin looking for a new place.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
how much should the engineer be reserved about his methods etc to have his job, and how could he have a good work relationship with this type of technician, that listens to the engineering office manager, but not to the engineers"
Why do you ask? The "one engineer" appears to have been tasked to do a job, for which they should provide adequate documentation so that whoever is left behind can maintain the calculations, or software, or whatever. The technician and their lack of cooperation is irrelevant, because even that technician is not forever, so whoever takes their place still needs the documentation and calculations, presumably.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
People are complex and usually motivated by a number of factors. It's your job, in my opinion, to establish a good working relationship with him. You are the educated one and, as an engineer, you will be considered a part of management whereas the tech will most likely never be considered part of management.
Treat him with respect, teach him, if that's his interest, and try to learn from him as he learns you and from you.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program: http://nspe-co.org/events.php
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
My work is meaningless if it isn't fabricated correctly, installed correctly, operated correctly, and maintained correctly.
I find that my attitude- namely my openness about how and why I made the decisions I made, my willingness to explain something complicated when someone asks a question, my willingness to admit when I've made a mistake or when someone who is nominally 'under' me comes up with solution that's better/faster/stronger- all have a massive effect on how I am perceived by technicians/maintenance/installation/operations personnel.
Being seen as approachable and down to earth is a priceless currency, which you cannot buy. The only way to earn it is to be... wait for it... approachable and down to earth.
Treat people with respect, and when the time comes where you've made a mistake, or the customer make some insane demand, and you need those techs to work a Saturday to bail you out they'll do it. Because they know you respect them.
You'll also find that when you're approachable and respectful to tradesmen, they do a MUCH better job of reading your drawings or work instructions, and following the direction of those documents which you've produced.
In short, technical skill means a lot for an engineer- but for a lot of engineers, being liked is often of equal importance.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I disagree. So many shop staff and technicians have two wrong feet from which to start a relationship. So many places where "burn the engineer" is a national sport.
This climate usually is the product of years of bad relationships. But it's hardly fair to assume that it's mutual.
I will say that judging from the OP's English skills, he's most likely from outside the anglosphere. He better get used to a more egalitarian footing with technicians and tradesmen (and janitors and grocery clerks). Status- and caste-consciousness does not play well here.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
No one should have to fear that transparency within their organization will lead to severance. If the name of the game is to spend a portion of one's work time learning from the "next" level up to one day fill the position, make sure you are shadowing the engineering office manager yourself. Let the tech learn from you so there is no reason to hold you back from filling the managers spot should it become available. If you feel the tech is a real threat, become indispensable to him.
I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
While it's ok that the tech person or even the company rules don't allow the engineer know much about the laboratory details, and test modifications, the other side of the road is wide open.
This is absolutely asymmetrical, unfair, and exploiting and will prevent any company to grow and have a sane R&D
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I don't really get what you are saying, but your last statements don't match with my experience. Engineers, as a rule, do the analysis and configuration of tests, and technicians execute.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
It sounds like you came here to validate an opinion you already held- that your work is sacred and no one else should be privy to your methods.
If you want to be effective, put out good work, get promoted, whatever- you need to rethink your approach. Being highly territorial will not help you accomplish any of those goals.
Has it occurred to you that the tech protects his methods because you are apparently working hard to protect yours?
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
The laboratory is where your ideas are tested. You should be there, in person, at least several times a day, and you should always know what's going on there, at least in respect of your own projects, and you should damn well know about any 'test modifications' before they happen.
Take off your damn necktie. Burn it.
Burn every necktie you own, except for the one you want to be buried in.
Your excrement smells as bad as anyone else's.
Get over yourself and get out there.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I'd love to be present in production sites and labs , I don't like just sitting at a table, it's mostly your manager that doesn't like to see you walking around to learn things that they might not want !! and overload you with work !
maybe in the past it wasn't like this, now it is !
The tech will not love to see me around his table and lab obviously, and will avoid my questions with the excuse of being busy !
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Ask his permission to watch what he is doing, and do just that.
Do not ask questions. Answer any that are asked.
If you need permission from your boss to wander out to the lab, you are chained to the wrong oar on the wrong slave ship.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program: http://nspe-co.org/events.php
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I campaigned vigorously for Pro-Engineer drafting/design software.
The company bought it.
They paid for it by discharging most of the engineers, including me,
and having designers drive the software.
Hey, it says 'Engineer', right there in the name.
The results are about what you'd expect.
Want to buy a formerly successful company?
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Would you really want a family doctor that says "Here. Take one of these every morning" and won't tell you why?
I happily explain my work and why I'm doing various tests or inspections. I happily involve the millwrights, electricians, and programmers in the process of doing what I'm doing. No secrets. If there's a certain test that needs to be done, I explain how to do it and involve them in the process. If there's a problem that needs to be solved, I present the problem and ask for opinions from the people who are actually going to be building or fixing it. If they can have bugs or issues sorted out on their own before I get involved, that's a win all around.
In all my experience, the best designers and the best engineers are the ones that are regularly out on the shop floor and work together with the actual millwrights, electricians, and programmers who are making it happen. The ones that hide in their office NEVER do well.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
If the doctor is unable or not willing to answer the questions I'll pay my co-pay walk out the door and find a more open doctor. It's my responsibility to take an active role in my health. Just as it is your responsibility and the technichian's responsibility to actively learn about each others roles in the projects and work together as a team. Perhaps he is unwilling to share because you are as well. There's no trust in your relationship.
It may behoove an engineer to take a different tact and open up to the tech, and even go to the tech for opinions when the engineer is stuck.
You'd be surprised at the fresh spin or magical shortcut an experienced tech could teach even to some of the most experienced of engineers.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
this is what I'm trying to say
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
If you are worried he will replace you based on the info you give him.....well....a company that would replace a engineer with a technician doesn't value you anyway and it was probably going to happen anyway.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Depends on the software. Many of us set up controlled simulations daily for junior engineers, techs, or even sales dweebs to run ad-infinitum to see if products will work given customers' inputs. Paying an engineer to do a technician's job is rather wasteful.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I have no patience for arrogance. I don't practice it although many engineers, technicians and electricians do. If you are guilty of the arrogance, try giving him some slack. If you are both arrogant, neither of you will make out in the end.
Pride is a dangerous thing in our profession and almost always leads to failure. This applies to engineers, technicians and electricians.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
What I gather from the OP's posts is the fact that he/she feels like she/he is being bird-dogged and second guessed by the lab technician. That is a tuff place to be if true. I've spent the last couple of years with some coworkers with similar inclinations. In my experience those inclinations come from their own fears of "having their job stolen." Work with them have patience, give them the information that they ask for, and do it with a smile. They will eventually begin to respect you, and value your opinion. It won't happen over night. They may still be territorial over some of the aspects of their job; let them be that way. The technician will not take your job. They were there before you, and very well may be after you, but will certainly not replace you. There is a reason your employer hired an engineer, and that is most likely because they have reached the limits where their designs can be improved by said technician. The fact that they haven't solver a known issue for over 10 years proves this point. If you can fix a problem like that, it is something that will be remembered for a long time.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
Lack of knowledge creates fear and possibly hostility.
Be generous in sharing knowledge - it will pay you back one way or another.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
I highly recommend starting with the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Then work on improving your people skills from there.
RE: Professional behavior in the company with technicians
The sad fact of the matter is, the fresh-out-of-school engineer needs the seasoned technician much more than the other way around.
You need him to learn and understand what the heck is going on and to get things done.
From his perspective, you are just messing up his daily routine. (Stereotyping, OK).
Don't lose your flegm because of the pavlovian reactions of a frustrated technician.
20 years later, the company needs the seasoned engineer much more than a seasoned technician.
Until then, though, see all the advice above.