Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
(OP)
Is there a management bible out there somewhere that gives guidelines for how many engineers are required for a particular sized project? For that matter how is project "size" determined? The required completion date must be in there somewhere as well I expect. Is this all from the experience of the Engineering Manager? What if the Engineering Manager is not an engineer and has no engineering experience?
Just curious.
Just curious.





RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KR0AMA/ref=dp-kindle...
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
The joke is that there will be cheap flying cars long before there is a suitable method for 'no engineering experience' managers to manage an engineering project. Might as well ask how one can choose the members of a surgical team with no medical experience.
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Then, your management will simply whack 20% off the top and tell you to suck it up.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
You should make a list of your engineering deliverables, i.e. drawings, reports, specifications. Separate the deliverables into categories based on fields of expertise; You will have an engineer for each category. Then estimate the hours required for each deliverable. If the sum of the hours for any of the categories exceeds the working hours available before the deadline, add man-power and divide those hours to suite the schedule.
If you don't know how much time each deliverable would take, meet with an engineer in each field and have them estimate what they think it would take.
Something that is often overlooked by managers is the diminishing returns of simultaneous projects. Make sure you account for time lost to interruptions from project non-stakeholders and the "retooling" time incurred when jumping between tasks.
I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
define the scope
define the WBS
define the org chart
prepare a CPM schedule
work with the task managers to define the man-power requirements
resource load the schedule
add resources as needed
add overtime if needed
make sure you address all the risks (complete a risk register)
make sure you allow for reviews, approvals, permits, value engineering, FMEA, etc
iterate all the above as necessary in order to meet the scope requirements, budget and schedule goals
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Sandcounter: Sounds like a good system except if the engineer you're meeting with is also inexperience or if no one is experience in what you're trying to develop because it's new. Just no substitute for experience really, I guess.
To your last point, at my last few positions I've suggested tracking all engineering projects through MicroSoft Project, to develop realistic timelines for multiple projects involving multiple people and/or departments, and see when any particular resource was overloaded. No one in management has liked that idea so far. Wonder why? Maybe because it would point out their unreasonable expectations?
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Surprisingly, it works pretty well. As engineers we like to see everything ironed out to the nth degree, but that's not what managers are looking for. They value effectiveness over efficiency.
I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Add this into the fact that the base licence of MS Project does not do shared resources well, and it becomes a very tall task indeed to get anything useful out of it.
If your organisation runs timesheets, then there's at least some chance that you can get an idea of time spent on particular projects, by using whatever reporting means that may be available from it.
I've also seen people suggest using spreadsheets instead of Project, which generally doesn't work that well either.
There is, of course, the possibility that it would point out unreasonable expectations, but its far from the main reason on why you'd find resistance to the idea.
EDMS Australia
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
- ask the experienced engineers to estimate the man hours and schedule required to complete the project (note: if the requirements, deliverables, tasks etc are vague, then the experienced engineers will likely estimate very conservatively)
- sum up all of the inputs
- state "OMG the estimate is way more than the budget"
- arbitrarily cut the estimate by 3x (or more)
- hope the experienced engineers can pull off yet another series of miracles, and/or get promoted/transferred before the inevitable budget overrun panic occurs
- repeat process on the next project learning nothing from the previous ones
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Sure, that and sheer laziness. It takes a lot of discipline to track projects beyond their conclusion and collate the data for future use. I've been at a number of companies, and only one ever even attempted to do what I described. Most of the time, they wing it and base estimates on their vague collective and tribal memories.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Decades before that, I worked for a company that was fairly well run, in retrospect, but I didn't realize it at the time. They had a full time guy, Dominic, who spent all his time keeping track of project deliverables and such, using CPM, on paper, manually, long before computers arrived. I thought Dominic was a major PITA, but he was just doing his job.
As the hardware for a major project started coming together, and it all fit and worked with only a little modification here and there, I started revising the design documents to reflect the 'as-built' condition, so that future iterations would go more smoothly, with fewer markups and fewer phone calls. The Project Manager put a stop to _that_ activity as soon as he found out about it, because it was coming out of his budget, but he wouldn't get any credit for it.
The product was reasonabnly successful; they were installing the second of four units when I was laid off 'for lack of work', but they went on to build about 20 more units. I found out they were doing that because I got a phone call, a year or so after my departure, asking me why I had not revised the design documents to agree with the marked-up prints that had actually been used for fabrication. The PM had conveniently forgotten our interaction, recorded no 'lessons learned', and retired. I think they had also discarded my copies of the markups, too.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
BUT, here's the thing a wise manager once told me. Bidding a project is like poker. You don't bet your hand, you bet his hand. When the higher ups put together their fee, it's likely that they're trying to figure out what fee they think will win the job, and the highest fee they can get given the client and the competition. Then they go back and use your hour estimate as a check, to see whether the job is going to be profitable or not. Just going off of an hour estimate could lead to not getting the job, OR it could lead to leaving a lot of extra money on the table, which could have been used to cover a loss on other jobs with overages.
There's another thing too. It's cheaper to do a job at a loss than it is to sit idle. I learned this from my father, who was in heavy construction.
Those two things aren't often understood by folks in the engineering labor pool trying to pull the project together.
In terms purely of your "staff level," however, the initial exercise of doing a simple critical path analysis is very valuable, and doesn't take long.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
My primary rational for MS Project was that all the various on-going projects along with the common resources shared by those projects (including personnel) could be combined into one master timeline that would point out if any particular resource was being over tasked. It would also make it easier to access how new high priority projects(emergencies) will affect the time lines of existing projects as they always pull away resources. An emergency on someone else project, or some other department of the plant doesn't mean anything to my project until it pulls away a resource I planned to use and screws up my time line. Scheduling of resources is a decision that people with a high level overview of all on all going projects need to make, but this would make it easier to re-figure new time lines.
All my projects are in house stuff, no outside bidding, but if you Were dealing with customers it seems like tracking would be even more important.
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Never manage something you have no prior work experience in the field of which you are managing. Generic business managers with no experience in any occupational field EQUALS worthless idiots that do not belong managing anything. Business management theory without any education/experience in a particular occupational field should NEVER manage.
If you don't have a grasp of what goes on, how can you manage? You don't need to be an expert but you need to know what goes on because even a fresh out of college graduate of an engineering school has more competence to manage than you do even if they never took a single business management/administration course. Don't manage projects unless you have a little bit of experience working as an assistant to a professional engineer and essentially "job shadow" how engineering work is done for at least 3-5 different size/types of projects. Usually, 2-3 projects of each kind. This way, you have a minimal statistical basis to go from on estimating hours. Collect information about how many hours they spent doing different tasks, etc. You'll need to learn the vocabulary but you don't need to be a engineer or graduate but it can help if you gain the understanding of the language. It's kind of like it would be at an architecture firm or any business.
It is why most business administrators takes it as an MBA *AFTER* they got their undergraduates degree and work in the field of their undergraduate studies or closely related fields. A person may co-major but then one degree is business administration and the other is in a particular occupational field. If you took a major in business administration and a minor in another subject then maybe consider business managing/administration in the field of the minor. Find a role there. Otherwise, you have an uphill battle to learn the field because they vary too much to give you a simple answer.
I apologize if I sound harsh but this isn't a personal attack on you. It is that you are fooling yourself if you think you can manage anything without some understanding of the field of the 'business' or project.
How about work as an assistant to the Managing Project Engineer whom will oversee the actual project and you observe the tasks people do and how long. Learn the vocabulary, and so forth. In professions (often ones where licensing is customary), the project management is handled by experienced professionals in the field who often has taken project management and/or business administration/management as their graduate level or through continuing education or something along the lines including self-study or through someone who had who they worked under. In any case, YOU don't know the field enough by your own admission. It would be insane for you to try to manage a team of people without any fundamental understanding of the field. It is kind of a recipe for disaster.
I'm sure there is a book out there.
Another book... more applicable to architecture but sometimes might apply to some engineering practices:
Design Office Management Handbook by Fred Stitt.
https://www.amazon.com/Design-Office-Management-Ha...
I'm only pointing to it as a reference not to promote it other than a suggestion of possible sources of reading material that can be helpful.
ASTORIA BUILDING DESIGN, LLC. |
Building Designer | Architect/Engineer (Sweden,Norway, Finland, and Denmark [including Greenland])
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
So if I understand your perspective correctly, it pretty much gets down to no substitute for experience. Would that be correct? There's no popularly accepted tomes documenting anything?
Thanks again.
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
ASTORIA BUILDING DESIGN, LLC. |
Building Designer | Architect/Engineer (Sweden,Norway, Finland, and Denmark [including Greenland])
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Yeah, you and I are talking about different types of operations entirely, different scales, and different pressures. I was referring to an engineering project that might take a month and a half, being done by four to six engineers, and needing several inputs from outside. For that, a whiteboard should handle it. If you've got 12 guys working four different projects simultaneously, I could see the benefit of MS Project. If you're a construction superintendent, then you're living and dying by that Gantt Chart, and it better be updated daily.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Four guys each working 12 different projects simultaneously, would be closer to reality for the places I've worked. And in some saying "4 guys" would be stretching the truth.
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?
Link
RE: Is there an "official" way that required engineering staffing levels are determined?