SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
(OP)
I recently took the Gravity SE exam and received 3 acceptableness and 1 not acceptable on the afternoon portion of the exam.
It gave me an acceptable in Concrete which I barley drew pictures and diagrams for. (Ran out of time)
It gave me unacceptable on Steel which I completely smoked. However I referenced AISC 13th Edition (Black Book), not AISC 14th Ed (Red book)
Does anybody know if that reference really would make a difference? Or is the results just erroneous and they didn't want to pass me.
Do you need to get acceptable in all categories?
I did barley studied anyways.
Best regards,
Craig Horner, PE
It gave me an acceptable in Concrete which I barley drew pictures and diagrams for. (Ran out of time)
It gave me unacceptable on Steel which I completely smoked. However I referenced AISC 13th Edition (Black Book), not AISC 14th Ed (Red book)
Does anybody know if that reference really would make a difference? Or is the results just erroneous and they didn't want to pass me.
Do you need to get acceptable in all categories?
I did barley studied anyways.
Best regards,
Craig Horner, PE






RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
If I'm the reviewer I might think this person can't even bring the right code book to this test why would they use the correct code in practice?
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
• You need approximately 28-30 on the morning from what I can tell.
• If you have a good morning score then you likely need two "acceptable" and two "improvement required" scores for buildings, or two "acceptable" (one of these being the 2 hour problem) and an "improvement required" for bridges.
• If you have a less than 30 morning score then you likely need three "acceptable" and one "improvement required" for buildings, or two "acceptable" (one of these being the 2 hour problem) and an "improvement required" for bridges.
• As best I can tell, if you get an unacceptable on any of the afternoon problems then you will not pass. Perhaps if you have a near perfect morning score then you may pass but this would be hard to determine based on the limited information I have.
• It has been confirmed that not completing a problem but listing out steps or rough calculations can get you an “acceptable” score for an afternoon problem.
I can all but guarantee that if the reviewers can identify that you're using the incorrect version of the referenced specification then your question will be marked unacceptable. Depending on your morning score that unacceptable likely was what resulted in you not receiving "acceptable" for the exam. Regardless, if you can pass this exam with "barely studying" then color me impressed.
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
And let's not use this forum to put others down and make ourselves feel more powerful. That would be shallow, and suggest that we, as engineers, have social issues.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
I find it ridiculous that you'd go into this exam with the incorrect code (especially one as important as steel design). Sure this time that particular code may have only changed slightly. However, that might not always be the case. If you aren't willing to get a current code for this test, it's not a stretch to imagine that in practice that individual may design with outdated codes. That's generally a bad idea and IMO accepting results from someone using the wrong code would give the impression that's acceptable.
A few years ago I took both SE gravity and lateral back to back. I passed the gravity but failed the lateral. So the following spring I signed up for the lateral. Between those two tests they changed all the code versions. I didn't take a shortcut, I borrowed what I could and invested my own money on the rest and upgraded all my codes.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
Also, even if the grader has discretion, consider that grading an exam is difficult and time consuming. Don't give a grader an easy out by citing the wrong Specification. A tired or tardy grader might see "13th edition" and stop right there and write "unacceptable" and move on.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
[I'm really surprised at the number of responses criticizing the OP for using a 13th edition code... you're all telling me that you immediately dump your editions of ACI, AASHTO and AISC every time a new version comes out? Oh, and update all your spreadsheets immediately too, right?]
I think that either the steel question wasn't as straightforward as you thought -- the SE does that quite often.
Or most likely there's an error in the results reporting, and you actually were given the unacceptable for the concrete problem.
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The name is a long story -- just call me Lo.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
I don't think anyone is criticizing him for using an old code......what we are criticizing him for is showing up with a code not on NCEES's list for a exam.
If you are looking for a defender of NCEES......you won't find it here. (They just got finished losing the record I've had with them for years. Just about everytime I've dealt with them, the whole thing screamed: incompetence/disorganization.) But they set the rules. And if you bring a code that is not on the design standards list (on their web site; IIRC, they also state the code to use in the problem statement)......you are asking for trouble.
Yes, if it's the multiple choice portion of the exam you could luck out that what you are being asked hasn't changed from code to code.......but why risk it if you are going to all the trouble of trying to pass it?
And for the record, I don't think the wrong code gets you completely nuked for the essay/written part. From what I've heard, they also grade you on procedure (i.e. the right one) as well.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
Certainly, the ideal would be to show up with every reference NCEES lists, correct edition and all.
But I think for many engineers (myself included), that's a pretty expensive proposition. I think I owned the correct versions of ACI and ASCE 7. I was one edition behind on AISC, IBC, PCI, NDS and AASHTO (either mine or my company's). And in large part, that was only because I'd personally shelled out a lot of cash (maybe $1k) in advance of the PE exam. Rather than doing so again, I went through the update notes page-by-page and marked up the old versions with changes.
I lucked into TMS at a library a few states over, but I had to scour my network to borrow copies of AISC Seismic and AISI.
Granted, I'm in an industry where there may not be as much pressure to keep current on codes as others.. maybe it's not as much a burden as I think.
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The name is a long story -- just call me Lo.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
You certainly don't have to personally buy each and every standard. I took what I could from my employer, borrowed a few from colleagues, and bought a couple. If you don't have a network of fellow engineers get involved with your local ASCE chapter or SE chapter, meet some fellow engineers; I'm confident you'd have no problem borrowing any code you need.
I had less than $400 personally invested in codes. The SE exam is not an exam to cut corners on, IMO.
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
RE: SE Exam Specification and Passing Criteria
From what i can tell The Mighty Engineer is probably right.
I'm thinking 25 out of 40 right in the morning and 3/4 right in the afternoon.
I recently purchased the red book(14th) and there is very little difference between the two. Thus,
I was close and did not pass. Yes, I smoked the steel problem as I used to work for a fabricator designing steel connections and elements daily.
I did not do well on the bridge questions. (Didn't study them). Recently bought the Bridge book by David Connor. It's a pretty good book. The problems are pretty easy.
I personally own all of the books as I own my own practice.
Best Regards