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RC beam to RC wall connection

RC beam to RC wall connection

RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)
Hi all

I searched the thread but I couldn't find a similar subject.
How the RC beam to RC wall connection be detailed if the wall is spanning up the beam for several floors, while the beam is spanning from one column to the other column (passing the wall between the two columns)?
This concerns to the congestion of beams and walls re-bars in the region of the connection.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

- Beam top steel will run through.
- Beam bottom steel will probably also run through.
- I'd stop the beam stirrups at the faces of the wall.
- I'd just discontinue the wall reinforcing at the beam to keep things simple. Depending on member sizes and density of reinforcing, it might not be a big deal to run the wall bars through the beam but, if you're going to go that route, I'd at least sketch up a decent scaled detail to convince yourself that it constructable.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Disagree on the last one. I would definitely NOT discontinue the wall reinforcing at the beam. Especially without knowing a lot more about the design!

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Quote (rapt)

I would definitely NOT discontinue the wall reinforcing at the beam.

Why ever not? Sure, everything has to be designed and I can imagine some exotic situations where it might be problematic. However, for the general case of a little beam passing through the interior of a big old bearing wall, discontinuing a few bars surely wouldn't make a lick of difference. Especially in the common case where the beam is at a floor level.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)
Hi all

Quote (KootK)


- I'd stop the beam stirrups at the faces of the wall.
Can partial bearing of beam on the wall (if the wall thickness is less than the beam width) exclude stirrups (shear strength) from the beam? do you consider vertical wall re-bars as legs for stirrups? I think partial bearing of beam on wall will decrease flexural reinforcement demand.
My thought is that the beam stirrups can be stopped if the wall is located near the center of the beam. If so, How about wall located near the columns?
What about compatibility torsion requirements for beams supporting discontinuous slabs? This requires stirrups additive to shear reinforcement (or side longitudinal re-bars).

Quote (KootK)


- I'd just discontinue the wall reinforcing at the beam to keep things simple.

After pouring concrete, do you drill/epoxy wall vertical re-bars on the beam for the next floor?

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

I’d recommend posting a sketch so that we can understand your situation. It doesn’t Sound like what I’d envisioned (beam passing through perpendicular wall with full bearing).

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)
Hi

Quote (KootK)


I’d recommend posting a sketch so that we can understand your situation.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

I believe that is entirely different than what Koot was envisioning. Is the wall supposed to support the beam? or is the beam designed to span from column to column?

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)

Quote (jayrod12)


or is the beam designed to span from column to column?
Yes the beam is designed to span from column to column

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Can the wall and it's foundation take the load from the beam?

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

The beam will not span from column to column if the wall is there. The wall provides some level of bearing, stiffness and support. Unless you separate the beam from the wall with an expansion joint (which would not be the thing to do in my view), you have to consider the beam as spanning from column-to-wall-to-column.

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RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

The sketch is still not clear. What supports the three walls which do not rest on the beam? Do they run down to foundation level?

BA

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

I think this is a plan view BA. With four walls (supported below by some type of foundation along with the two columns.

Sort of a floor beam running parallel to and through and elevator shaft wall.

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RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

From the perspective of the design and detailing of the beam, I'd be inclined to treat the wall as a large column and design the beam as two span continuous.

Quote (OP)

Can partial bearing of beam on the wall (if the wall thickness is less than the beam width) exclude stirrups (shear strength) from the beam?

I'd say so. You couldn't really fail the beam in shear without also mobilizing the wall in shear. This may not apply at the roof level where your ability to keep the beam tied down tight to the wall is less apparent.

Quote (OP)

do you consider vertical wall re-bars as legs for stirrups?

You could but it seems unnecessary. You'd also have to combine the shear demand with any other demands on those bars arising from their role as wall reinforcing.

Quote (OP)

I think partial bearing of beam on wall will decrease flexural reinforcement demand.

It will absolutely reduce bottom steel demand. It adds top steel demand.

Quote (OP)

What about compatibility torsion requirements for beams supporting discontinuous slabs? This requires stirrups additive to shear reinforcement (or side longitudinal re-bars)

You do need to deal with that eccentricity somehow and tailor your detailing to reflect that. It might be easier to rectify your beam torsion via slab flexure.

Quote (OP)

After pouring concrete, do you drill/epoxy wall vertical re-bars on the beam for the next floor?

As it happens, in this particular case, I agree with rapt that you should run your vertical bars through the beam. I imagine that you're using your walls as lateral load resisting elements? Shear walls?

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

I wouldn't be surprised once you consider the beam only spanning the short distance, you couldn't reduce it's thickness to match the wall thickness. It might run into the column at a slight eccentricity, but I can't see that impacting the columns significantly.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Quote (JAE)

I think this is a plan view BA. With four walls (supported below by some type of foundation along with the two columns.

Sort of a floor beam running parallel to and through and elevator shaft wall.

If that is the case, perhaps two beams could be used, each bearing on one corner of the elevator shaft (if that is what the square thing is).

I was under the impression that the wall above the beam did not extend down below the beam, so that the beam was supporting the wall.

BA

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)
Thank you all

Quote (JAE)


I think this is a plan view BA. With four walls (supported below by some type of foundation along with the two columns.

Sort of a floor beam running parallel to and through and elevator shaft wall.

Exactly.

Quote (KootK)

If you can provide a sketch of your suggestion for the case stated in the first post. What one should do? Have you encountered such a problem?

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Quote (OP)

If you can provide a sketch of your suggestion for the case stated in the first post. What one should do? Have you encountered such a problem?

- Have.

- I recommend doing what I described.

- How about you sketch it up and I'll let you know if anything looks out of wack? No time today for homework assignments.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)

Quote (KootK)


- How about you sketch it up and I'll let you know if anything looks out of wack?
Please find the attached picture

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

What the heck is that?

BA

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)

Quote (BAretired)


What the heck is that?

It's a section through beam and wall showing wall longitudinal re-bar and beam re-bars

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Is there no slab here?

Quote (OP)

If you can provide a sketch of your suggestion for the case stated in the first post. What one should do? Have you encountered such a problem?

I'm confused now. Do you want to discuss the other situation that I commented on in my first post. Or the situation that you posted in your sketch just now? They're different.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Quote:

(Kootk)

I'm confused now.

Join the club.

@ the OP: are you sure what you are asking about isn't a pilaster/a column built into a wall? You keep calling it a "beam".....but the sketches you have provided remind me more of a pilaster.

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)

Quote (KootK)


Is there no slab here?

Sorry, I didn't draw the slab because the main concern was about detailing so that avoid the congestion in the region of the beam and wall rebar

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

Are there Elevator doors below the beam?

BA

RE: RC beam to RC wall connection

(OP)

Quote (BAretired)


Are there Elevator doors below the beam?

Good point. If there is a door below the beam, then possibly you can cut the wall re-bars because it is discontinued in the door location.
Suppose the door is in the direction perpendicular to the beam span length

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