Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
(OP)
I'm wondering if anyone has done work on trying to stabilize landing and takeoff characteristics of tailwheel aircraft using some kind of gyro technique. I've seen some folks on RC forums talk about having a little device that is based on solid state gyros managing the control surfaces to help with stability of their aircraft and I've seen mention that it is helpful in preventing ground loops on tailwheel RC planes. Ground looping is a particularly nasty problem in tailwheel aircraft and I was wondering if gyros have been considered for actual tailwheel aircraft and not just RC. The control surface interaction would be one way of preventing ground loops however another might be to have an inertially heavy gyro spinning at high RPM in the rear of the airplane and locked to a position for stable landing and take off. I haven't done the math on whether the weight and rpm of such a thing would be practical but even if it isn't, the control surface method could be very useful too and involve reasonable weight additions I'm sure.





RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
For an aircraft carrying people, you can be sure that someone has done the math, and shown that it isn't practical. And the gyro-driven rudder control sounds like it would have frightening failure modes.
Microelectronic gyros like the one in your cell phone are plenty sensitive and responsive enough to do what you want.
This is essentially how helicopter drones orient themselves, now. If you are a RC builder yourself, then all the pieces are available for you to try it on your own models.
If fixed-wing RC tail-dragger model builders won't try it on their models, then all their talk isn't worth much.
Weight isn't the issue: nobody would try this with mechanical gyros.
STF
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
Apparently NASA did. Link I just found that info today, and while it isn't for tailwheel aircraft it at least suggests that it is possible. Still perhaps not practical.
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
unless these gyros are different to momentum wheels ??
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
reminding me of ...
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
However, reaction control systems that only turn the satellite use electric motors to spin a rotating mass. The energy comes from solar panels, not from stored fuel. That is the main point.
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
Ground looping in a tailwheel aircraft is largely a non-aerodynamic event. In a ground loop, full rudder deflection combined with maximum differential braking have lost the battle and inertia takes over for the ensuing unfortunate dynamic proceedings. That is why I thought mechanical gyro stabilization could be a solution. The Wiki article mentions thousands of newton-meters of torque from a 100kg gyro powered by a few hundred watts. That weight is a little high for smaller aircraft but depending on how many "thousands" of newton-meters, it is at least in the correct order of magnitude of adequate resistive torque to resist a ground loop in a small aircraft, one might think.
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
Agree. There is no doubt that something like what I'm thinking would be a highly engineered addition rather than just "toss it in the back, spin it up and go". For instance it may need a freely pivoting rotational axis until the wheels contact the runway - possibly an automated locking event. Then it may still need a limited amount of axial pivoting for minor corrections. It would then need to release the axis once the wheel speed dropped below some practical value for subsequent taxiing. So yes, nothing simple to be sure.
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
Rather, the question needs to start with whether this is actually a sufficiently serious enough of a problem to warrant trying to fix it. There are lots of problems that could be solved, but shouldn't, and vice-versa. Only when the problem should be solved, and can, should one proceed. There are few things more sad than a solution looking for a problem.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
I see what you are saying and I didn't say entirely non-aerodynamic. But I'm not convinced that the differential angle of attack of the wings dominates the phenomenon to any degree though. Do you have any references on that matter? It seems intuitive to me that you could take off the wings entirely and still ground loop just fine due to the CG being behind the front wheels and steering control coming from the rear.
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
The thing here is to prevent any excursion from a straight line before it develops. That is why a tailwheel pilot is trained to notice these excursions , and apply corrective action before they develop. How is your device going to differentiate between the jiggling and bumping a tail wheel on the ground endures, and the actual excursion from a straight line, or intended curve?
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
Wow, I'm very skeptical now.
I thought you meant using a gyroscopic sensor (low mass) to produce a digital signal which would be processed into an actuator control. The actuator would be directed to the braking and rudder inputs that are causing the ground loop and prevent it from developing into a ground loop. Like traction control or anti-lock brakes in an automobile. A system like this to counteract a ground loop is at least possible/conceivable.
Carrying a mechanical gyroscope in the aircraft with enough angular momentum to oppose a ground loop has even more frightening failure modes!
STF
RE: Gyro stabilization for tailwheel aircraft
The majority of tailwheel aircraft are light single engine aircraft, many with no electrical power and minimal weight carrying capability. Cubs and Champs and Tcrafts designed and built in the '30s when the average person weighed less than 170 lbs can barely fit two people of the average size today and still be LEGAL. Don't try and reinvent the wheel here. Even the larger tailwheel airplanes, how often do you ever hear of a DC-3 ground looping?