Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
(OP)
We had the need to buy Inconel 625 for a project we're doing. We ended buying grade 1, since grade 2 just wasnt available in the product form we required (tubing). Upon review of ASME SB444 for UNS N06625, would it be possible to upgrade a 'batch grade 1 tubing' to grade 2 by doing a solution anneal @ ~ 2100°F? Our application runs at 700-750 °C.





RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Yes.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
For ramp up and cool down rates, I would recommend you work with a reputable local heat treater or tube mill because this depends on furnace charge and type (batch versus continuous).
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
This is very odd, any mill that makes this could have simply altered the final anneal and give you the correct material.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Did You procure Your tubing per ASTM B444? NOTE: I Could NOT ID any similar tubing spec per ASME
This may/may-not be useful...
SAE AMS5581 Nickel Alloy, Corrosion and Heat-Resistant, Seamless or Welded Tubing 62Ni - 21.5Cr - 9.0Mo - 3.7Cb (Nb) Annealed (Composition similar to UNS N06625)
Per the AMS spec...
1.2 Application
This tubing has been used typically for fluid lines requiring high strength and corrosion resistance at temperatures from cryogenic to 1800 °F (982 °C), but usage is not limited to such applications.
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
See ASME SB 444
SPECIFICATION FOR NICKEL-CHROMIUMMOLYBDENUM-
COLUMBIUM ALLOYS (UNS N06625
AND UNS N06852) AND NICKEL-CHROMIUMMOLYBDENUM-
SILICON ALLOY (UNS N06219) PIPE
AND TUBE SB-444
ASTM does not provide process details, it is expected that Manufacturer's know this and it is up to the Purchaser to trust BUT VERIFY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
The only difference between Gr1 and Gr2 is that Gr2 is annealed at a higher temp and therefore has lower strength.
We make both of these all of the time (as do our competitors), but the chances are that distributors will have limited options.
Why do you need Gr2? It is not stabilized since it has been solution annealed.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
ASME BPVC.II.B-2017 ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code - An International Code
SB-444
SPECIFICATION FOR NICKEL-CHROMIUM-MOLYBDENUM-COLUMBIUM ALLOYS (UNS N06625 AND UNS N06852) AND NICKEL-CHROMIUM-MOLYBDENUM-SILICON ALLOY (UNS N06219) PIPE AND TUBE
SB-444
(Identical with ASTM Specification B444-06(R11) except that certification and test report have been made mandatory per SB-829.)
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Our service temperature is 700-750 °C. Grade is only allowed to 649°C as per Code. Also review section 1.1.1 of B444, which details the use of grade 2. Hence grade 2 is required.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Well, in the EU, it wasnt easy (better yet almost impossible) to find 625 grade 2 from a mill that usually provides quality.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
What did you do finally?
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
So how come you are using something between 700-750 C when it is only allowed up to 649 C as per code (as per your own threads)? I am curious.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
or learn how to place orders early enough.
Any mill that produces this product can make both grades.
Sometimes paying more and waiting longer is the correct option.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Welcome to the world we live in, Ed.
We'd be happy to have direct access to your stockroom- you probably have an off-cuts pile people like us could put into productive use...regrettably, we both almost certainly have to deal with distributors, who won't even bother to call a mill like yours for less than a mill run- and have no interest in keeping anything on their shelves unless it moves in volume.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
But seriously I understand the issues around this.
We make small runs of tubing, sometimes less than 500' on a frequent basis.
We also will re-process our material (but not other peoples) for special cases.
The real issue in not with specs like this (that use the same raw material) but in cases where we would need to buy 5T of raw material in order to even start. Or cases where RM has a 16 wk lead time.
You can have it quickly, inexpensive, or correct; select any two of them.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Engineering is the art of the possible. We usually work not with the ideal material, but with the material we can actually buy that best suits the project's needs. In our business we work comfortably within these restraints all the time, because we're not building units with 30+ yr design life. But sometimes, when the choice is between the right but impractical to obtain material (i.e. having 500 ft made so we can use 20) and an available material that represents a safety risk if/when it fails and where said failure can't be prevented by monitoring etc., the solution is to not proceed with the project.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
IF Your need is for a standard tube Dia and wall thickness [and/or 'close-enough', see attached Dia X WT table], in short lengths like this, then why not consider aerospace quality SAE AMS5581 hydraulic quality tubing from a reputable materials supplier?
http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=f...
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Most mills have a different process for the AMS material. Using an lower anneal temp results in less load on the furnace and less distortion of the tubing, so most people will anneal no hotter than they need to.
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
Like WKTaylor, I'm a little surprised by this. Given the "art of the possible" we try to practice, as Moltenmetal puts it, it never occurred to me that a code could be written to specify not only the minimum properties, but prevent use of materials with greater strength, temp range and creep resistance, too. I do not have such hand-cuffs in my industry. SAE-AMS spec also includes quality inspection and testing so I don't see where it falls down... except if you assume a turf war?
STF
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Codes and Standards are all about boiler and pressure vessel safety with longevity using design by rule or design by analysis. As such, materials are specified with minimum strength and ductility properties only to ensure the materials can handle expected processing and material that has mechanical properties higher than minimum is great except you don't take credit for it in design by rule.
You also have the option of design by analysis where here you have the freedom to take advantage of higher strength materials using analysis that demonstrates similar safety as design by rule. Service temperature limits are another issue and are dictated for a reason, to avoid premature failure from time dependent failure mechanisms.
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
STF
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
RE: Upgrading Inconel 625 grade 1
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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube