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neovalente (Chemical) (OP)
23 Jan 03 21:38
I am trying to determine the max.inflow and max outflow.of fixed roof tanks considering thermal breathing and need to know how to do it using API2000, what references do i need and where can i find examples of the orignal calculations so that i can just redo them to find the true max inflow and outflow
CHD01 (Mechanical)
24 Jan 03 10:08
Buy a copy of API 2000, and request a free copy of a vendors catalog (Protectoseal, Shand & JUrs, Groth, etc)for vents; the vendor catalog usually has an engineering or technical section that includes examples.

The more you learn, the less you are certain of.

Helpful Member!  1951101 (Chemical)
25 Jan 03 10:22
Neovalante

I am repeating/trying to clarify some of the simple steps in the calculation of venting and inbreathing rate.

1   The rate of maximum flow of feed into the tank is normally specified by the upstream pump data or production data.

2.   The outflow due to changes in atmospheric temperature is given the form of tables and calculations in API 2000.  

3.   Maximum rate of heat input in Fire case is well defined in API 2000 it is similar to API 520.  For Vertical Tanks  maximum height of 30 ft of shell only is required for wetted surface area calculation.

Similarly for vacuum  (In breathing)

1     The pump out rate is maximum capacity of the pumps that are connected.

2.    Thermal outbreathing rate is based on the exposed (uninsulated)surface area. There are Tables in API 2000.

The calculation methods/ equations are slightly different for Refrigerated storgae Tanks and Non-Refrigerated storage Tank.

Regards

P. Bala Brahmam
I hope the above may be useful.



Hookem (Mechanical)
4 Feb 03 8:04
You can also get annual average breathing loss calculations from an EPA report called AP-42; and, yes, there are places on the web where it can be found and printed as a .pdf file.
pleckner (Chemical)
4 Feb 03 12:58
TO GORDY1:

The "Size Master" program you mention is from Farris Engineering, not from Groth and is used to size relief valves. It does not do API 2000 venting calculations. For this, Protectoseal is one of the best.
CHD01 (Mechanical)
4 Feb 03 23:40
Groth also provided a program called CALQSIZE for sizing vents (unfortunately they called them relief valves even though they were pallet type devices and started a lot of confusion for a lot of people).  

The more you learn, the less you are certain of.

IFRs (Petroleum)
6 Feb 03 15:51
Even though you can get a spreadsheet or program to do the work for you, I feel that it is undeniably better for you to read and understand API2000.  Education and self improvement can't hurt.  Engineers need to understand what they are doing and why.

Just my 2 cents...
Helpful Member!  Montemayor (Chemical)
26 Feb 03 20:29
Neovalente:

IFR is absolutely correct in stating that the computer programs and spreadsheets can do the number grinding, but they don't do the LOGIC and PROCESS ANALYSIS that it vital to make sure your storage tank is safely protected against over (or under) pressure.

I've used all the major storage tank relief valve programs and hardware and I still have resorted to designing my own spreadsheet(s) which I use as the calculation documentation for the necessary OSHA PSM step and audit trail.  I force myself and all engineers who use this calculation method to go through the entire hazard scenarios specific to that particular tank and its operation.

If you are interested in seeing a working copy of this method, email me at artmontemayor37@hotsheet.com  and I' send you a copy.  There, you will find how to do the necessary work to comply with API 2000 and OSHA.
CHD01 (Mechanical)
26 Feb 03 22:44
Yes, I always use my own spreadsheets; but I also always check the vent I select using the vendors program.  Unfortunately, the early vendor programs indicated the vendor wasn't that good at sizing these vents either - but the programs have since improved - at least some have.

The more you learn, the less you are certain of.

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