Fired for documenting accidents
Fired for documenting accidents
(OP)
Not an engineering disaster, per se, but I imagine the readers of this particular forum would have more specific insight...
A discussion group I'm part of that deals in CNC machining recently had a post (with pics) of an accident. It seems a machinist decided to poke his head into the working area while the machine was spinning up, and in doing so lost a chunk of scalp... he'll survive with likely no lasting effects other than a healthier respect for moving machinery and a bald patch. While it serves as a good warning/reminder to others in the industry, I was surprised to see a number of posts warning the OP to remove the pics before they are fired. No one appeared willing to say why a company would fire an employee for documenting an accident, but I know some here would be happy to share their thoughts on the matter. I can't imagine it would even be legal to fire someone for that...
A discussion group I'm part of that deals in CNC machining recently had a post (with pics) of an accident. It seems a machinist decided to poke his head into the working area while the machine was spinning up, and in doing so lost a chunk of scalp... he'll survive with likely no lasting effects other than a healthier respect for moving machinery and a bald patch. While it serves as a good warning/reminder to others in the industry, I was surprised to see a number of posts warning the OP to remove the pics before they are fired. No one appeared willing to say why a company would fire an employee for documenting an accident, but I know some here would be happy to share their thoughts on the matter. I can't imagine it would even be legal to fire someone for that...
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com





RE: Fired for documenting accidents
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
For example, if the photos being posted resulted in a long list of comments observing that the injured party was an idiot for putting his head in the way of a moving machine tool and that the injuries were part of Darwinian evolution taking place, then a judge might decide that the photos and comments had prejudiced the outcome of the his claim for compensation against the machine owner for the machine having defective guards.
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Who owns the copyright in the pictures?
What/who else was visible in the pictures?
Broadcasting the lessons from accidents is a good thing, but there are lots of ways you can get it wrong.
A.
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Later, while job shopping, I was supervising on a Saturday at a different plant in another state, when a minor accident occurred. I led the victim to the company nurse's office, executed appropriate first aid,
...
then documented the accident and the treatment in the logbook maintained for such things, and signed the entry, as I understood state law and Federal law required.
Since my name did not appear in their org chart or phone list, it took most of a week for management to track me down and yell at me for sullying their not unblemished record of accidents, possibly causing a rise in insurance premiums or triggering OSHA action. I don't recall them asking about the employee's prognosis.
Told them I didn't give a crap about their record.
Not fired that day.
A little while later, somebody discovered that 90 pct of the staff at that site was job shoppers, and let us all go at once.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
> it may reveal proprietary information about the machine setup, product design, tools, etc.
> it may have become part of that employee's employment file, thereby making it personnel data, which is confidential
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Fired for documenting accidents
In this case, it's also about potential effect of associating the company with an ugly incident, which is bad advertising, unless you are selling safety equipment and training.
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Should have added... this is contrary to company policy...
Dik
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Just curious; I loved Outlook, but now I would only use it at gunpoint.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Dik
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
The root of the problem is that email inboxes are not meant to be used as long term storage of correspondence, but everyone seems to do it anyway.
EDMS Australia
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Dik
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Group Policy is a pain in the ass.
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
When the policy is configured such that it stops you from doing your work, its a pain in the ass. Luckily I now work somewhere where GP is used but doesn't get in the way.
I've heard a few horror stories from IT regarding misconfigured .pst files, so I do have some sympathy for people having to use such things. One was a .pst that grew too large for the storage location, so they migrated it to a memory stick, which corrupted itself, and because it was configured as POP3 there was no copy on the server. The 2Gb limit is another one.
EDMS Australia
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
While the same sort of thing might happen with rotating medium hard-drives, the difficulty in building the mechanical mechanism for those is so much higher than buying some highly available chips and programming and soldering up a nasty little piece of work.
Also possible - the USB drive initially posts to Windows as a memory stick. Then it waits a while and adds itself as a keyboard and a mouse; fires up a browser session or a CMD window and then goes to town, perhaps finally opening a network connection and shipping every bit of data it can get. Or patching in some other bit of code. And it can hold a ton of stuff in an area of flash that the OS cannot see because the microcontroller keeps it hidden.
This is why some places epoxy the USB ports. Not just because users might steal company secrets or some such, but to prevent an inside attack.
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
http://www.siliconmotion.com/A3.2_Overview_Detail....
Back to the original subject, some more detail: The photo taker was a coworker, and the photos were published with permission of the employee (both statements were made in the thread by the photog). The only "identifiable" photo was of the back of the guy's head where the injury occurred. From the comments posted, it appeared to be a number of BTDT folks warning against posting the pics, an the thread was deleted within 24 hours. I get the potential legal issues from the business side of things, but the scared reaction/warning from fellow machinists really surprised me.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
They will make you go back through off site backups and reconstruct histories.
And if anything was deleted after the beginning of an incident then you will simply be charged with willful obstruction.
Similar things are true with safety issues. If someone posted information before the accident was formally reported, or if the posted info differed from the report there could be compliance and/or liability issues.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
On my last day after being laid off, I went through my file drawer and I found and copied a memo I hand wrote the better part of thirty years ago, describing a serious safety hazard. The hazard was corrected, but it showed off a general attitude that could come back to haunt them. As an organization, you have some control over internal emails, and that is about it.
--
JHG
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Fired for documenting accidents
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
FWIW, I saw a photo like you described posted on several facebook machinist groups and practicalmachinist last week(?), its becoming a popular meme.
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Dik
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
I think that if the OP's example were from such a report, the only violation might be a slap-on-the-wrist type. But, an unofficial, unpublished, snippet is a wholly separate issue.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Fired for documenting accidents
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Fired for documenting accidents
Yes, I see it was just the employee, not the employer giving permission.