13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
(OP)
As an example let's use Vikings VK460 residential horizontal sidewall sprinkler http://www.vikinggroupinc.com/sites/default/files/documents/110205_0.pdf
If I have been interpreting this incorrectly over the years then at least I never did anything wrong.
We have an existing care home that requires retrofit and there isn't a space above the ceiling we can place our heads. Everything will have to be exposed below the ceiling so we're looking at exposed steel pipe.
The way I read the cut sheet is you must use the escutcheon as it is part of the listing and places the sprinkler a minimum of 1 3/16 and a maximum of 2 3/8" off the face of the wall or soffit.
Of course the distance down from the ceiling is a minimum of 4" and a maximum of 12".
The way I have always interpreted it is I can not simply run an exposed line placing my sprinklers 4" to 6" off the wall as allowed by NFPA #13 because we are not in NFPA #13.
The only way I can see doing this is run the line behind the wall doing whatever it takes to penetrate and place the escutcheon or install a soffit.
Can't use that; the entire house is a single dwelling unit. Trying to push it so each bedroom is a separate dwelling unit is just hoodoo to me...
But if we wanted to use quick response sprinklers we could but we would have to go to NFPA #13 and all it entails. Density, attic sprinklers and everything else that goes along with it.
Am I right? (I think I am 100% correct but just wanting to make sure).
Thanks
If I have been interpreting this incorrectly over the years then at least I never did anything wrong.
We have an existing care home that requires retrofit and there isn't a space above the ceiling we can place our heads. Everything will have to be exposed below the ceiling so we're looking at exposed steel pipe.
The way I read the cut sheet is you must use the escutcheon as it is part of the listing and places the sprinkler a minimum of 1 3/16 and a maximum of 2 3/8" off the face of the wall or soffit.
Of course the distance down from the ceiling is a minimum of 4" and a maximum of 12".
The way I have always interpreted it is I can not simply run an exposed line placing my sprinklers 4" to 6" off the wall as allowed by NFPA #13 because we are not in NFPA #13.
The only way I can see doing this is run the line behind the wall doing whatever it takes to penetrate and place the escutcheon or install a soffit.
Quote (NFPA 13R 2013 Edition)
6.2.1.3 Listed quick-response sprinklers shall be permitted to be installed in dwelling units meeting the definition of a compartment, as defined in Section 3.3, where no more than four sprinklers are located in the dwelling unit.
Can't use that; the entire house is a single dwelling unit. Trying to push it so each bedroom is a separate dwelling unit is just hoodoo to me...
But if we wanted to use quick response sprinklers we could but we would have to go to NFPA #13 and all it entails. Density, attic sprinklers and everything else that goes along with it.
Am I right? (I think I am 100% correct but just wanting to make sure).
Thanks





RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
Call Viking tech and ask the question??
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
which it is installed.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
Does that apply to 13R?
I guess I will call Viking tomorrow just to make sure.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
I have had to use this criteria for an EC HSW in a residential concrete building where the chance to add sprinklers in adjacent walls was not an option so 13 criteria was used because the commercial EC HSW 10 years ago threw further than residential EC HSW.
I would also check the occupancy if R or I to make sure 13R is OK but I know you did that already.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
As I explain to the architect I am not an architect or professional engineer. I am not competent to make such a decision and if I tried to assign a standard I would be practicing architecture without a license.
What architect would possibly disagree with me especially when such correspondence is relayed through the owner? I always get an answer back and I really don't care if it is right or wrong because I don't have a dog in that fight.
Had this happen once. The architect has 13R on his signed and sealed drawings but I smelled something wrong so simply asked the question. The professional of record claimed it was a 13R system when it wasn't. The owner was very upset but not upset with me. The worst thing a layout technician can do is play architect or professional engineer.
The building is concrete, can not run heads in the ceiling and the large living room will take a minimum of 6 sprinklers in the compartment.
I need to call Viking.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
skdesigner above mentioned residential uprights. They might be a good option for this application. Just be aware residential uprights/pendents must have deflectors 1-4" below the ceiling.
Is there a finished ceiling?
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
What we have is an existing standard ranch home with five bedrooms just like the house you might live in. The entire house is a dwelling unit and in my opinion to call each bedroom a separate dwelling unit is pushing it to hard.
That is how I've always interpreted it.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
Interestingly the QR requirement came about as a compromise with the lodging industry that wanted to retrofit lots of buildings in the '80s and EC HSW sprinklers being the easiest way to do this lacked the residential listing. NFPA allowed the use of QR sprinklers but limited them to 4 in a dwelling unit. I guess this explains why I was confused earlier; I've only ever applied this to hotels and motels which is exactly what this exception is designed for!
To sum up I think you are correct. I have done layout for systems like this before using pipe penetrating the walls and decoshield on the side with the pipe. I'm not aware of any residential sidewall that lets the deflector be that far off the wall to run the pipe in the same compartment as the sprinkler it serves. Looks weird but meets code. Another option is to build an 8" or less soffit.
RE: 13R systems, residential sidewalls and standard QR sidewalls.
What I heard was way back yonder the standard allowed for four QR heads in dwelling unit so standard QR dry pendents and dry systems could be used on the upper floors motels in areas of the far north where it really freezes.
Before I would use a residential sidewall without an escutcheon I would need it in writing from the manufacturer that is was OK to do. Lacking that I would do it a way I knew was right even if it looked bad.