Are Millennials really Different?
Are Millennials really Different?
3
zdas04 (Mechanical)
(OP)
OK, we've heard it. And heard it. An heard it again--"millennials are different, they need different things from a workplace". A new study from Hay Research that looked at over 5 million employees finds it to be just another bullshit myth. Folks remain folks and the big difference between generations remains ... age. People in their 20's look at things differently from the way people in their 30's look at things. Always have. Always will.
Perceived generational differences are both nonsense and self-fulfilling prophecies (i.e., if you think someone needs to be treated differently, and you do, then they respond to the different treatment just like any generation would have). There is a story from Inc. Magazine about the study at A 5-Year Study Reveals the Truth About What Each Generation Wants in the Workplace (It's Not What You Think) The actual report can be downloaded at Hay Group Report
Perceived generational differences are both nonsense and self-fulfilling prophecies (i.e., if you think someone needs to be treated differently, and you do, then they respond to the different treatment just like any generation would have). There is a story from Inc. Magazine about the study at A 5-Year Study Reveals the Truth About What Each Generation Wants in the Workplace (It's Not What You Think) The actual report can be downloaded at Hay Group Report
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist





RE: Are Millennials really Different?
maybe more relevant is comparing how people have been treated at the same stage of their career. In the 80s new job starts were treated differently than new job starts today, and differently from new job starts in the 60s. The whole culture was different and so everybody's expectations were different. New starts today would not take kindly to being treated as new starts in the 80s, and no-one would (reasonably IMHO) expect them to. The same applies to mid career and later career people.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Andrew H.
www.mototribology.com
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I think that that is the essence of the article. Also the self-fulfilling prophesy element. If we give in to the hype and treat these little darlings differently then they will grow to expect different treatment.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Link
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Given recent history I for one am curious to see how millenials address many of the problems unsolved by previous generations. Technically I'm on the border of millennial and Gen X so am hopeful that many of these will be addressed in my lifetime however only time will tell.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I just finished re-reading The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand (I read it every few years) and I'm always impressed that the human reactions in 1928-1935 are identical to current reactions. People don't change.
Also, if you apply a characteristic to a race, you are a racist. If you apply a non-biological characteristic to a gender you are a misogynist. If you apply a characteristic to an ethnicity, you are a xenophobe. And so forth. We are all quick to condemn stereotypes based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion, or sexual preference, but at the same time we all rush to apply stereotypes to Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Y. Those stereotypes are just as stupid to apply to a generation as to apply them to a race. An individual applies pencil to paper (or fingers to keyboard), not a generation.
This is such a hot button for me because the professional societies that I belong to (SPE, NSPE, ASME, NACE) are all in the midst of the process of consuming themselves over the issue of "including millennials". The Society of Petroleum Engineers has put so much emphasis on "Early Career Development" that they have pushed everyone over 40 out of the local chapters and nearly pushed all of us out of the SPE. When I was chairman of local SPE chapter I made it a point to ensure that past chairmen were welcomed to the meetings and included in everything that they were willing to participate in. Two former chairmen went to a recent section meeting and the chairman "welcomed" us as "new members" because he had no clue what went on in the section before he joined 3 years earlier. I hear the same stories from sections of all of the societies I belong to all over the country. The focus on the new generation has pushed the last generation off the page.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
•In 1975, 25% of men between 25 and 34 had incomes of less than $30,000 (adjusted for inflation) per year. By 2016, it was 41%.
•The number of young women ages 25 to 34 in the workforce jumped more than 40% between 1975 and 2016.
•Those young women saw their median income rise from $23,000 to $29,000 in the same time period, although men's remains $11,000 higher.
•Between 1975 and 2016, the number of young female "homemakers" dropped from 43% to 14%.
•1 in 3 young Americans lives with a parent or parents. Of those, 1 in 4 does not work or go to school.
•In 1975, far more young adults lived with a spouse than a parent. By 2016, more young adults lived with their parents than a husband or wife.
•41% of young families had a student debt in 2013, up from 17% in 1989 and the amount owed on those loans has almost tripled.
•Young adults are increasingly putting off children and marriage.
You can read about it here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04...
Maui
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I definitely agree with that. Whining about millennials just means you have become an old fart.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
First, that it's all a myth...but the video on the webpage pretty much confirms the idea that Millennials are different. They need constant reassurance that they are doing well(seriously...quarterly raises?).
The writer also lost me with:
"In light of the recent violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, due to white nationalist groups espousing their hate and separatist ideologies, future leaders who will excel the most in our organizations will embrace diversity; welcome differing opinions, ideas, and expressions; and create an open environment that promotes mutual understanding, where people come together for a greater good."
______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
As a millennial, I only hope that one day I will be able to look at a younger generation and think, "Wow, they are better than we were." instead of carrying on the traditional "kids these days" mentality.
When the greatest generation (as it is known in the US) was in their twenties, what did the 40-60 crowd think of them at the time?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Better in what sense?
Education? Social Justice? Innovation? etc.
I think a lot of younger people live by their emotions and passions rather than objective truth.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
As for what older generatiions thought about boomers, there's many recorded examples but one of the better was one of Ralph Teetor's speeches to the SAE in which he expressed concern that boomers werent growing up amongst the struggles of subsistence agriculture as previous generations had. He argued that being sheltered in subdivision life as had become common was bad for developing good work ethic. I'm sure there is more to the issue but its interesting nontheless to compare historical perspectives to see similarities and differences of opinion.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
And in many of the still rural areas there is no cell phone service, or it is much slower.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I don't know that that is true. The school I went to was very rural and has over twice as many students today as it had in 1971 when I graduated. I can't think of anyplace I've ever lived that rural populations were actually shrinking. Now if you were talking about percentages of the population, then it is true that a larger percentage of the population comes from urban and suburban place than rural places, but in terms of number of workers who came from rural locations the number is growing.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Also as a reference, I don't think there as many young people bucking bails of hay. It's become more automated, as the bails have gotten bigger. So fewer rural kids are doing as much manual labor.
That's where I'm coming from.
More automation, fewer people who know what manual labor is. More people who want heated seats and automatic... and how it feels.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I think there is a population decline or at best much slower growth in rural areas. The rural areas that are growing are becoming more urban or suburbs to urban areas and are not providing the same rural experience there once was. There are a lot fewer people working in agriculture. I grew up in a small farm town and the prospects for anyone that stayed were very low. Most who stayed, stayed to work on their family's farm. In the 1950's 20-25% of the population worked in agriculture in the U.S. Now, it is a little above 2% and it is only going to get worse with automation and the decline of family farms to large commercial operations. I think "rural" living for most is to live in the suburbs so that you are far enough out to do the outdoorsy things but close enough to find a decent job.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I don't disagree that the percentages of the urban/rural mix is shifting ever more in the direction of urban/suburban. I was just disagreeing with the idea that the absolute numbers of people in rural areas is decreasing. 20 years ago it was something like 80% urban/suburban (this breakdown is hard to dig out of the census data) and 20% for the rest (which includes people in small towns). Today it is closer to 85-15, but that shift is not a decline in the rural population, just a bigger increase in the urban/suburban population.
The farm kid thing is really hard to dig out of the data. 2% of the population work in "agriculture", but there are a huge number of 4-20 acre "farms" where one or more parents work in industry, and the farm tasks fall to the children. The property doesn't qualify as "agriculture", but the work is the same. I grew up on one of these non-farms. Between the kitchen garden, the pigs we raised to butcher, the hay field, the 2 acre sorgum field, and the (few) cattle we raised for market it was a pretty big job for 3 kids with parental help on the weekends, but it was never in the statistics as "agriculture".
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/...
The numbers tend to move around a bit; the bureau has been tweaking their definitions of "urban" over that last 4 decades.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
The real question here is... How much longer until the Butlerian Jihad?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
At the same time I tend to carp about how much slower my newer computer is than my old one is, and it is not backwards capable of running older software.
So it appears there is a moving shift to slower, and more features, that younger people are likely to accept.
Yes, men went to the moon with less computing horsepower than my current calculator.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
They went there with less computing power than your kindergarten calculator...
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
I worked on refueling two nuclear reactors in 1974 where the Gantt Chart project schedule (covered a very long wall of a large conference room) was drawn and maintained by draftsmen using pen and ink with manual drafting tools. I can't say it was any less effective than I can do today in Microsoft Project, but the people in charge were a lot less willing to change the schedule than we are today--wonder if we've really advanced? The project managers spent a lot more time understanding the steps and the interrelationships then than project managers tend to do today.
The slide rules and machine-language computers that made Gemini and Apollo possible were treated as tools to access numerical values for the equations of motion, combustion, strength of materials, and fluid dynamics. The hard part was the actual engineering, the numbers were just the result. Today we tend to treat the numbers as "engineering" an the arithmetic as a black box. Incredibly scary.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/fashion/danah-bo...
"The slide rules and machine-language computers that made Gemini and Apollo possible were treated as tools to access numerical values for the equations of motion, combustion, strength of materials, and fluid dynamics. The hard part was the actual engineering, the numbers were just the result. Today we tend to treat the numbers as "engineering" an the arithmetic as a black box. Incredibly scary."
We seem to have quickly forgotten that log tables of yore are essentially black boxes. This "today" notion is just a "good ole days" grouse; the instant we had programmable calculators, we made a bunch of black boxes to solve problems that might have take a hour or more to do by hand and reduced the time to solution to minutes or seconds. That "today" was 40 years ago. 35 years ago, "today" we made circuit analysis a black box, when programs such as SPICE and MSINC allowed us to use timeshare computing to crank circuit solutions for fairly complex circuits that would have taken days to analyze by hand. There were curmudgeonly engineers lamenting that those young "whippersnappers" treated circuit analysis like a black box and didn't understand the math and loop equations underlying all of that. This is the nature of progress, and we're standing on the shoulders of giants that stood on the shoulders of their giants. Does anyone really want to analyze anything more complicated than a simple Class A amplifier with Kirchhoff's equations and an SR-50 class scientific calculator. Can anyone realistically think that we could build any of the skyscrapers in Dubai using hand calculations?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Good engineers have always and will always take steps to confirm that any tool will do the job that it is intended to do. When I picked up a pipeline model in 1984 (mainframe), I ran a bunch of cases to ensure that the model matched field conditions, and I made a couple of theoretical (simple) networks and calculated them by hand and applied that data to the model. If the model did not match reality to a pre-defined precision then I wouldn't use it. If it did match then I was happy to run networks that were far too complex to ever successfully run by hand. I do exactly the same thing today. The good engineers in this generation do the same thing. The bulk of engineers today (or when I started) take the model and put in their network and accept the output, even if it is nonsense. My oldest son is in an electronics class, and was designing a circuit for a class project. He used my approach to verify the modeling program that he was supposed to use, and it gave him a red flag on something that he knew was fine. After digging in he found that there was a glitch that didn't handle the input data properly if it wasn't in a certain (undocumented) sequence. He was careful to put his data in the "right" sequence and did well on the project. Others didn't and their outcome wasn't as good.
Good engineers understand the underlying assumptions behind the equations that they use and won't violate those assumptions. The run-of-the-mill engineers grab an equation and use it without ever thinking about the boundary conditions or the underlying assumptions. It has never been different.
I often scream about a "Modified Bernoulli" equation that is taught in (too) many engineering schools. Basically this concept takes the Bernoulli equation and adds a "head loss" term to apply it to pipelines. The Bernoulli Equation cannot be derived from first principles unless you add the assumption that friction and rotation are zero. You cannot prevent rotation in a pipeline, and without friction headloss is zero. Good engineers are offended by this (mi
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Remember, folks - the world we build is for the future, not for us. It doesn't matter if they're different, or they don't do it like we always have. Every generation changes. I'm a little surprised that smart people can't understand this concept. (that's coming from one of the dumbest guys in the room)
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
Some of us younger folks type with two fingers as well. Although the last typing test I took, I managed almost 60 wpm corrected.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Are Millennials really Different?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-03-04...
I suppose this begs the question, in a 100 years will a flashdrive or the IPAD itself be on display in a museum commemorating the creation of their constitution? I don't know. There is something inherently soulless to something that important to not be put physically to paper. Seeing the revision history in Word doesn't feel the same to seeing a document stuff written in the margins, scratched out, and physically signed.
It might not be long before keyboards are superseded for the most part. I have seen people type on ipads and phones as fast as I can with using the word predictor function.
RE: Are Millennials really Different?