Nixie Tube Grid??
Nixie Tube Grid??
(OP)
I'm tasked with designing a wacko Nixie Tube clock. I have to use the IN-28 which is a Soviet era tube that is just a single bright dot about an inch in diameter.
Here's the pertinent data sheet page:

Normally one hooks the B+ voltage to a Nixie's Anode (a metal screen) and each of the digits is a cathode that gets grounded to light it.
Well-and-fine, but this particular tube sports a Grid pin too. See pin 1 - Cetka. Cetka means 'Grid'.
Any of you tube-heads know what I should do with it? Do I ignore it?
Pins 2, 5, and 6 are NO-CONNECTION.
3 and 7 are ANODES
4 is the CATHODE
I'd be nice if anyone also knew if the diagram was viewed from below or above too. The tube is hard to see into since the sides are pretty obscured.
Here's the pertinent data sheet page:

Normally one hooks the B+ voltage to a Nixie's Anode (a metal screen) and each of the digits is a cathode that gets grounded to light it.
Well-and-fine, but this particular tube sports a Grid pin too. See pin 1 - Cetka. Cetka means 'Grid'.
Any of you tube-heads know what I should do with it? Do I ignore it?
Pins 2, 5, and 6 are NO-CONNECTION.
3 and 7 are ANODES
4 is the CATHODE
I'd be nice if anyone also knew if the diagram was viewed from below or above too. The tube is hard to see into since the sides are pretty obscured.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com





RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
That said, "grid" is often used to describe the anode cage
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Volunteer Fire Department
or
Vacuum Fluorescent Display.
Wiki:Link
(Thanks to MacGyverS2000's hint)
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Scotty; Ugh. This design is already a major time consuming headache needing a 5V supply a 65V supply and a 250V supply all fed from 12Vdc. Having to add a fourth.. Shudder.
IR; That makes sense. Especially since these were used in huge stadium sized displays where often they were multiplexed. Wish someone had a circuit for them. I've searched everywhere. At this point I probably need to ignore the grid and run them the same way everyone else runs the standard ones, which have no grid.
Next hurtle is trying to mount them. I was going to mount them in pin sockets so they could be easily replaced but 50 cents a pin and each clock having 204 pins that would cost $1,632 for this build of 8.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
I was thinking more of a resistor bias chain, no external supply. Might be an adjust-on-test job though, so if you're using loads of these things then it might not be viable.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
But generally this stuff isn't socketed. If you think you'll need to replace, create a PCB that is modular and would allow replacement of singles (or a small number of units... a 1x5 board might be nice).
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
I also thought of sub-tube-boards as a quick, cool way to swap-out tubes but immediately ran up against the same screw-machine-pin cost problems only 2X! since now you need pins on the little boards and sockets on the main board.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
My wife reads Russian - somewhat. Are there any data sheets?
Pins are always seen from the bottom, as opposed to IC legs.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
I attached a pdf of the data sheet.
Link
Thanks for the bottom tip. I figured it out by finding those two pins that are tied together (anodes) which quickly identified what you describe.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/8-pin-pc-mount-...
As I mentioned, though, there are more to be had for cheaper prices with some further digging.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
to see if they'd hold the pins which are just wires on these IN28s.
I wonder if they have any sockets for two pins. I'd need 500 of those.. I'll dig around.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
BTW That guy that calls them Nixie tubes is wrong. They are NOT Nixies. Nixies do not have grids and they are per definition showing numerals (N in Nixie stands for that). Not that it matters what you call them. But I like correct terms.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_...
Could probably find cheaper, but that was the first Google result. For that price and $2/socket, I'd solder them puppies directly to the PCP and purchase a few extra IN28s as spares.
Also found this Google Group discussion on driving these things... I think you'll find all you need there:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/neonixie-l...
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
There are some IN28s about. Usually small lots for ~$100.
Gunnar's probably correct that the sockets might not play..reliably with those leads. My issue is that these clocks -this is a product- weight about 50-lbs. So having a customer ship them back is painful all the way around. On the other hand having things plugged into 240V that a user might figure out how to unplug is also a problem..
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280-x-GAZOTRON-IN-28-Nixie...
25/$60
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-PCS-LOT-IN-28-NIXIE-TUB...
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
The Nixie Clock fabbed boards. The silver thing is a quarter for scale.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
STF
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Battery: I've got a different design that doesn't use evil Lithium batteries but then it dawned on me these clocks will weigh about 35 lbs. No one is going to try shipping these by air - so I left in the superior 2032 cell design.
Spar; !! I've never designed a board even half this size.. well yeah, half this size yes, but not ROUND!! It's waaaaaaaaYYYY too big to fit in my entire process chain so I'm going to have to hand solder it all. -Not so fun-
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
If you install the 'Nixie' tubes on the opposite side of the PCB than planned, then the non-symmetric pin assignments of the tube would mean that the tube pins would be in reversed 'clockwise-edness' compared to PCB pin assignments.
i.e. the Plate and Grid swapping places around the missing pin, for the tube described above.
Is the PCB opposite-side tube reverse-clocking compatible?
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
When you write the software for the clock, will you include some "Special Effects" for certain times/dates (e.g. 0:00 01 Jan)?
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Where will this huge Nixie tube clock originate its time reference? It'd be a shame to be big and amazing, ...and 17 seconds off.
Something like this impressive clock should be within a heartbeat of precisely-accurate.
By way of example, only a few days ago I finished up a cute little "GPS Clock In [a tiny] Box". It's the usual borrowed and adapted software, an Arduino Nano, an old uBlox NEO-6M GPS module, and a blue 1602 LCD display with I2C backpack. They're all packed into a comically-tiny wooden craft box from the dollar store. The little wooden box came with a glass covered window in the lid, which was just about perfect for the 1602 LCD display; so the overall design almost wrote itself. The overly-thick USB power cable runs out the back. Other than about a half-second of latency, it's inherently perfectly accurate - which is nice. The Arduino Nano doesn't do anything other than reformat and pass along the GPS time, so it is what it is (i.e. accurate, or frozen display [perhaps a To Do item).
[EDIT: The black box on the other end of the cable is just a USB Power Brick (battery).]
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
There's a WiFi clock setter I was going to use but the customer nixed it. Just buttons on the side and battery backup. I did provide up/down buttons and even seconds adjustment. They might need to adjust it once a year but I'd take that over re-setting clocks every time the power blinks.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Lots of options to play with the peripheral LEDs https://youtu.be/KD9erDrjtEA?t=138
Typical Nixie: :http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PCS-Vintage-IN-8-NOS-NIX...
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
E.g. "The [Maxim] DS3231 is a low-cost, extremely accurate I2C real-time clock (RTC) with an integrated temperature- compensated crystal oscillator (TCXO)..."
They're as cheap as chips, even in the better TXCO version. Complete DS3231 modules on eBay are typically US$1.33 (shipped).
Good luck.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
To me, RTCs mean loss of power protection and coin cell batteries for the backup... do you really need to go down that road?
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
I've used this RTC for years and years. It's cheap, has a bunch of static ram to keep settings in, that won't burnout like EEPROM and runs for yeeeeears on that particular battery, and won't run on the battery unless power has failed.
(I do find I have to lacquer that bit of circuit to prevent 'funny business' from bothering it.)
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Either that or your webcam is on
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Make a heavy center board with all the common stuff on it. Bolt (or wide-solder) the slices ground-planes to the center and use little ribbon cables to connect to the slices.
Then, you can fit it into your process and avoid hand-soldering.
Less work. Better reliability. Better economy.
I know that you will hate this - at first - but give it a thought.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
The smaller size of the boards may be an important factor. That is what Keith said somewhere higher up. The board, as is, seems to be oversized for his soldering machine. But the customer may think that a "monoboard" solution is more reliable.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
1) ~ six times the number of boards. The boards would be cheaper per but the shear quantity would likely treble the board costs if not more. Shipping one board order is ~$40. I'd be hit with $240 in shipping alone.. More than these cost in total.
2) These boards in pie shapes would likely still fill my small reflow oven with just one or maybe two boards. ~25 minutes per reflow cycle. 8 complete clocks, six slices; 48 boards. Say two fit the oven, 24 oven cycles. 24 x 25 minutes = 10 hours babysitting reflow. (Just shoot me!)
3) Would need some harnessing to convey signals to the various slices. We're talking 350 volts here which exceeds most ribbon cable systems.
4) These clocks have 204 thru-hole leads that need to be hand soldered anyway just due to the tubes. SMD solders ~3x faster than thru-hole.
I'm good. Really!
Fun discussion, thanks!
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
It's mind-boggling how cheap, easy and fast custom PCBs have become. That industry segment deserves a medal, or a cake, or something.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
This is another of those threads that turn every stone to come up with the optimum solution.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Nixie Tube Grid??
Hi Gunnar. Indeed! Love the intelligence and broad experience the fine people here have and share.
To your list I have to include getting old adds the horror of sitting in one place for a long time which causes me butt and leg aches and pretty much is what controls the production process.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com