First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
(OP)
Let me first preface this with the fact that I am an intern. I have seen PEngs on many engineering forums get in a huff about 'students' posting legitimate questions about career, but I am using the duck-test principle here. If I get treated as, berated as, and loaded with work as a under-market-rate engineer, I'll be damned if I don't ask for advice as one as well.
Background:
I'm in the engineering sector in North America, and took a year off school to work for an general aviation company in R&D, the kind of industry where everything needs to be completed yesterday on a string-bean budget. I have a year to graduation. This was my first engineering job, and I thoroughly enjoyed it as an experience. While I treated it as a learning experience, I also realized I was hired to do a specific job, and did not play company politics or forgo my tasks to learn at the company's expense. And I was always drowning in tasks.
AFAIK I have done an excellent job at meeting expectations (I have not had a performance review due to poor management org, but have always delivered to the best of my ability, and have gotten praise from senior coworkers).
The issue:
My boss is notorious for not giving references. I learnt this in the 14th month of my 16 month contract, from a coworker who left for a better job a while ago. Upon further investigation, this has been the experience of lots of junior engineers and EITs. My boss is European, so it may be a cultural difference. Also, in the aerospace industry, references seem to be less needed, as most skilled workers' reputations precede themselves (applies mainly to experienced guys though). You either know your shit, or you don't.
Points to note:
I am in my final month of contract. Up until now, getting a reference from my direct supervisor on a job well done was just a given in my mind. While many might not need it, I definitely do at this career stage. Do you have any advice on how to approach this, pragmatically and as early as possible so I'm not left flat-footed at my exit interview?
Is there any kind of reference I should ask for (letter vs linkedin vs phone ref), that he might be more amenable to providing?
Also, coming from a young student mentality, I feel rather betrayed on a professional level. Is this something I should just get over/used to? I abhor the idea of playing politics, but am open to changing if I get stepped on too often.
Thank you for any forthcoming advice.
Background:
I'm in the engineering sector in North America, and took a year off school to work for an general aviation company in R&D, the kind of industry where everything needs to be completed yesterday on a string-bean budget. I have a year to graduation. This was my first engineering job, and I thoroughly enjoyed it as an experience. While I treated it as a learning experience, I also realized I was hired to do a specific job, and did not play company politics or forgo my tasks to learn at the company's expense. And I was always drowning in tasks.
AFAIK I have done an excellent job at meeting expectations (I have not had a performance review due to poor management org, but have always delivered to the best of my ability, and have gotten praise from senior coworkers).
The issue:
My boss is notorious for not giving references. I learnt this in the 14th month of my 16 month contract, from a coworker who left for a better job a while ago. Upon further investigation, this has been the experience of lots of junior engineers and EITs. My boss is European, so it may be a cultural difference. Also, in the aerospace industry, references seem to be less needed, as most skilled workers' reputations precede themselves (applies mainly to experienced guys though). You either know your shit, or you don't.
Points to note:
- I worked directly and solely for the Chief of Engineering. So while there is a 15-person engineering team who I am on great social terms with, I have never worked extensively on a technical basis with any of them. I am an intern, any senior engineer could have offloaded work to me, yet I did not do work for other members of the department to cultivate favour, but focused on my isolated task.
- I may not stay in the industry. I have had a few people say that while they can't give me a technical recommendation, they'd be happy to forward my resume if I apply to the company they work at (most are contractors who move firms every 2 years or so). However, they will always be at aerospace firms, and I have little interest in continuing in that field (mainly due to industry organizational practices).
I am in my final month of contract. Up until now, getting a reference from my direct supervisor on a job well done was just a given in my mind. While many might not need it, I definitely do at this career stage. Do you have any advice on how to approach this, pragmatically and as early as possible so I'm not left flat-footed at my exit interview?
Is there any kind of reference I should ask for (letter vs linkedin vs phone ref), that he might be more amenable to providing?
Also, coming from a young student mentality, I feel rather betrayed on a professional level. Is this something I should just get over/used to? I abhor the idea of playing politics, but am open to changing if I get stepped on too often.
Thank you for any forthcoming advice.





RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
I don't see my supervisor more than once a week or so, even in passing.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
Unless, of course, you're looking to get a job that requires a security clearance
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
Go have a beer with one or more of these people, and ask them if you can use them as references. They may not have directly supervised you, but may have seen your work output and/or work ethic, and should be able to cobble up a letter that states such.
As others noted, letters of recommendation don't come up much anymore. And in the aero world, which I left many many moons ago, the turnover is so rapid that most of my prior bosses were long gone a few years after leaving, in one case my direct supervisor left about a month after I did.
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
I'd say if I stayed in aero, I'd be fine with the relationships I've cultivated.
Agreed.
Pity. A team who can't socialise and work well together can itself can be the life or death of a program.
I half expect this from most of my coworkers, yes. Exodus in the last 6 months has been around 40%.
I make good friends wherever I work, I just don't play the blatantly sleazy 'networking game' particularly well. Again, appreciate the advice, especially from old heads whom I feel like I already know somewhat from your previous posts. I've lurked quite a while :)
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
I think CWB1 was referring to ethics and morals, rather than socialization skills or participation.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?
RE: First industry-related job, might not get a reference. Should I change my ways?