INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Jobs

MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

(OP)
Dear All

I am using PV Elite software to model a pressure vessel based on ASME Sec.VIII Div. 2.
Design pressure: 93 barg
Design temperature: 88 C
Shell/Head material: SA-240 304
Shell ID: 3400 mm
Head type: Hemispherical
The problem is that with these conditions the vessel fails in the hydrotest calculations because the stresses are higher than allowable stress for hydrotest. As a normal procedure I increased the thickness of shell but again the vessel fails in hydrotest this time in the head region. Then after increasing head thickness the failure occurs on the shell and this process goes on.
Then I decided not to model the heads at all. This time the calculations were made on just a cylinder and the hydrotest fails again and by increasing the shell thickness this problem cannot be solved at all.
I think the root of this problem is that by increasing the thickness of the shell, the MAWP of the vessel increases too and this makes the problem like an endless loop.
What can I do to remove this problem?
Warm Regards

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

In my experience this seldom occurs. I'm not sure about the inner workings of PV Elite so as part of your troubleshooting I'd recommend you investigate what it's doing, but have you read 2.2.2.1(1) in ASME VIII-2 on the specified design pressure and MAWP? There's a similar comment in UG-99 note 36 in ASME VIII-1.

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

Under no circumstances should your component be limited to the allowable stress at the test condition. See 4.1.6.2.

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

My suggestion would be to only do one iteration of thickness increasing. Set the MAWP to be equal to either the design pressure OR equal to the MAWP prior to increasing the shell thicknesses. This should resolve your problem. We have taken this approach several times with Div. 1 vessels. I don't believe Div. 2 prevents you from setting the MAWP. For your data report you would need to indicate the MAWP limited by design.

Hope that helps!

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

If your client's spec asking MAWP must be calculated, then you will need to ask for an exception in this case. Tail chasing is not unusual especially for SS unless you set the MAWP equal to design pressure. Allowable hydrotest stress can go up to 95% of the yield per Div. 2.

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

(OP)
I investigated this issue more and I think I have found the root problem. In Div. 2 the test pressure is given by:
PT=1.43*MAWP
Now the allowable stress in div.2 is:
S=min{Sy/1.5,ST/2.4}
For the cases that the allowable stress is limited by yield stress we have:
S=Sy/1.5
The MAWP that the software calculates is the pressure that makes the stresses in the part as high as allowable stress S. Now if this pressure is multiplied by a factor (1.43 in hydrotest) the stress will increase with the same factor. Therefore, the stresses for the hydrotest will be:
Hydrotest stress = 1.43*(stresses due to MAWP) = 1.43*S=1.43*Sy/1.5=0.9533*Sy>0.95*Sy=Allowable stress in test condition
Therefore, if the allowable stress is limited by yield strength for a material, then the MAWP has to be set to a lower number. As far as I know stainless steel allowable stress is limited by the yield strength. Besides this situation is even worse if we want to use note G2 of table 5A in Sec.II-D and make the allowable more than Sy/1.5.

I do not know if what I have said is correct or if I am totally wrong. Can anybody help me understand?

Warm Regards

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

Indeed, you have detected a flaw in the rounding of numbers. You are correct and the Code was wrong.

That 1.43 should actually be 1.425, which is 1.5/0.95.

We fixed this problem in the 2017 Edition - which should be out now for your perusal.

For the 2015 Edition and earlier, I would recommend, in your situation, to use 1.425 as is used in the 2017 Edition.

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

(OP)
Thank you TGS4 for your reply.

I think this problem is still there for the materials which are subject to note G2 of table 5A section II-D. If you have corrected this in edition 2017 of the code and changed the 1.43 to 1.425 I think you should make another change. For the materials of note G2 this test pressure has to be:

PT=0.95*MAWP*(Sy/S)
with this change if the ratio Sy/S is 1.5 the test pressure is given by:

PT=0.95*MAWP*1.5 = 1.425*MAWP

And if the material is subject to note G2 of table 5A section II-D this value is less than 1.425
As an example for SA-240 304 in 100 C degrees temp. we have:

from table 5A II-D: S = 138 MPa
from table Y-1 II-D: Sy= 170 MPa

and the test pressure can be:
0.95*170/138*MAWP = 1.17 * MAWP
This factor 1.17 * MAWP is much lower than 1.425

Warm Regards

RE: MAWP Problem in Sec. VIII Div.2

Paulettea, please submit a request directly through the ASME online tool. And then share in this discussion the ASME tracking number. I will personally follow up with that, as I was the Project Manager for the other test changes.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources


Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close