Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
(OP)
I recently helped a guy with a rotary converter problem and found the wire he had installed to be the worst wire I'd ever worked with. It was so frikken stiff it was absolutely miserable to use. It was some gawd awful crap he'd bought at Home Despot. I suspect it was Chinese stuff that they didn't bother annealing after the last draw or something. It was 2AWG and had about 5 strands. The guy had actually had to make tools to bend it so he could get it to the lugs in panels made for considerably bigger wire than 2AWG. For the work I helped him with that wire literally added 3 hours to a 2 hour job. I never want to see or deal with that again.
He now needs to install a second machine and is asking me what wire to use "this time" not wanting to fight with that stuff either. We're not looking for welding cable flexible but can anyone suggest something between this 'iron bar' crap and welding cable? This is for 240V service. NEC land.
He now needs to install a second machine and is asking me what wire to use "this time" not wanting to fight with that stuff either. We're not looking for welding cable flexible but can anyone suggest something between this 'iron bar' crap and welding cable? This is for 240V service. NEC land.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com





RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Sounds as though he bought SEU (Service Entrance Underground) cable which, because it rarely needs to bend, has a low strand count (should be 7 strands for #2) and yes, that's stiff. That SimPull THHN would be 19 strands, that's what you want (or any other brand as long as it's the higher strand count). HD is not likely to carry that, you'll have to get some from an industrial supplier.
A warning on DLO cable or Welding cable: most mechanical lugs are NOT rated to be used on that K class stranding and higher, you must use crimp lugs and only those specifically made for that.
"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Here is a link to a place I use sometimes to buy smaller quantities of different wire https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/Copper-Buildin...
Not sure where you are but likely a local full service electrical supply house will also be able to get MTW in #2AWG for you as well.
MikeL.
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
https://www.iewc.com/resources/technical-guide/stranding-classes
Does MTW mean "M" series stranding? That would be considerably finer wires than even "K".
Ah, further research shows that class "K" is 600+ strands so the MTW certainly falls in that realm. Ack! Now I have to try to figure out if the various clamp connections will be acceptable.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
http://www2.schneider-electric.com/resources/sites... talks about this situation.
For years we used DLRO, DLO and weld cable for rental power systems and camlock connections, we used prepackaged cut copper strips to wrap around the wire strands before inserting into the connector, the sleeve keeps the strands together and allows for a good connection. CamLock part numbers for those are A100400-1 (or -3 or -4) and here is an assembly instruction, http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public...
I have also used ferrule sleeves like these in many applications,
https://burndy.com/docs/default-source/cutsheets/b...
Burndy (and others I'm sure but I always use Burndy) make crimp on pin terminals that have been specified on a number of jobs I have worked on over the years,
http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/burndy/cat/603106
There are also these, https://lugsdirect.com/Flex-Cable-Wire-Adapters.ht... I haven't used them yet but I have a job coming up where they were specified so that is what is getting installed, but they look well made and apparently the local AHJ was good with them.
Hope that helps, MikeL.
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
The Canadian Electrical Code has tables listing the applications that the various wire designations are approved for.
There must be something similar in the NEC.
What is good for a rental generator application may not be acceptable for a permanent installation under the NEC.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
MikeL; I find it interesting that DLO cable has about 150 strands but MTW can have 600+. I'd have guessed moving train-like stuff would benefit from more flexible cable but I guess the wire running down a moving cable guide to a Z-Axis could greatly trump the required train flexibility.
Thanks for the ferrule/wrap info!
Jeff; Great.. Yet more exceptions. LOL MTW 600+: MTW 19 strand! $^%@@&*#
Bill; I think that's what we'll do (19-strand THHN) as that's probably easily found in town at the electrical supply houses.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Don't use SO cable, either. The neoprene insulation breaks down rapidly in hot junction boxes or in the presence of ozone from contactors. Marine shipboard cable is similar to plenum duty cable and lasts a long time.
Finally, it's not to your benefit to oversize conductors. I know too many people that try to wire their home outlets with 10ga because it must be better. It puts so much strain on terminals and can't be stuffed in boxes properly so it ends up getting pinched or pierced by screws.
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
If it is not possible to work in the plane of the bend such as some bends inside the panel, use the wrench at 90 degrees to the plane of the bend and grip the jaws of the wrench with another wrench to twist it.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.
Muthu
www.edison.co.in
RE: Wire type suggestion for a machine tool install.