INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Jobs

what recommendations should i give to client?

what recommendations should i give to client?

(OP)
i did some heat load calc for a structure that is 100x50
it was a warehouse converted into night club with 284 occupant load.
bare walls, regular doors.
the existing ac system is two 7.5ton units.

this is the calc results:
220k btuh heating
636k btuh cooling

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

Replace the HVAC system. The loads and ventilation requirements of the different uses are drastically different. I don't need to run a load calc to tell you that a nightclub with dozens of people dancing and moving around is going to be vastly greater than a warhouse with few if any people in it.

If the client doesn't want to replace the HVAC system, gently tell him that his club will quickly gain a reputation as being hot and stuffy and it won't be long before his clients go elsewhere.

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

(OP)

Quote (dbill74)

I don't need to run a load calc to tell you that a nightclub with dozens of people dancing and moving around is going to be vastly greater than a warhouse with few if any people in it

i think anyone could figure that one out.

I suppose this question is better suited for someone local who knows what would be a better design (since the HVAC unit isn't the only thing that needs updating.)

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

Does the client know and understand the difference in load characteristics between a warehouse and a nightclub?
I don't know the background of your client or his experience with property development.

Since you will need to replace the HVAC system in its entirety, you can go with just about anything you want.
I'd hesitate to go packaged RTUs, not without a thorough review of the structure. (maybe a bunch of small ones; I can almost guarantee 2 big RTUs will be too heavy for the roof).
Lots of outside air means lots of exhaust; this will make it a good project for energy recovery.
A separate system for the administration area/offices is recommended.

I'm kinda shooting in the dark here. You haven't really given us a lot of information about the project or asked a very clear question. It almost sounds like you need to hire a local consultant to help you out.

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

You should recommend he hire a Mechanical Engineer rather than trying to bootstrap a design with which you are unfamiliar.

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

From what you've told us the only thing you can tell your client is that the required cooling load to keep the punters happy is 636,000 BTU/hr cooling. Running both current units will only supply 180,000, hence only about 25% required capacity.

The HVAC system needs total upgrade and re-design.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

53 tons seems a bit much for something this size club; that rough ballpark supposedly fit a 10000 SF club with 1000 people: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?575632-HVA...

284 heads at 150W/head --> 12 tons
5000 SF at 1 ton/500 SF --> 10 tons

so more like 22 tons.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

(OP)


Quote (dbill74)

Does the client know and understand the difference in load characteristics between a warehouse and a nightclub?
i wanna say yes. more people require more cooling.

Quote (dbill74)

I don't know the background of your client or his experience with property development.

Since you will need to replace the HVAC system in its entirety, you can go with just about anything you want.
I'd hesitate to go packaged RTUs, not without a thorough review of the structure. (maybe a bunch of small ones; I can almost guarantee 2 big RTUs will be too heavy for the roof).
Lots of outside air means lots of exhaust; this will make it a good project for energy recovery.
A separate system for the administration area/offices is recommended.

that's basically the issue to which i was getting. which is why i asked for recommendations that could be given, not to detail out specifications for this project.


Quote (dbill74)

I'm kinda shooting in the dark here. You haven't really given us a lot of information about the project or asked a very clear question. It almost sounds like you need to hire a local consultant to help you out.
i'm looking for general information, not anything specific

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

(OP)

Quote (IRstuff)

53 tons seems a bit much for something this size club; that rough ballpark supposedly fit a 10000 SF club with 1000 people: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?575632-HVA...

284 heads at 150W/head --> 12 tons
5000 SF at 1 ton/500 SF --> 10 tons

so more like 22 tons.

thanks for the link.

Yea, i thought 53tons seemed pretty high. Even after adding insulation for compliance with code, i still need 45 ton.
I'm using manual M calcs, not a rule of thumb tho, so the 1 ton per 500sqft would be way off.


With this load i see that there really is no way around keeping the current system. I suppose it's really a question for the client now. does he want a whole bunch of units or swap for really big ones (and potentially require more roof support due to much large unit).

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

First structural

I'm confused by you - your post history makes you look like an electrical engineer, but you're down as structural and now verging into HVAC design??

A couple of tips here...

Add more information. I mean you ask for recommendations with:
No data
No background to the issue
No breakdown of your calculation
No thoughts of your own
So you can't really expect too much here.

As you say the answer is pretty clear - the HVAC system there isn't big enough. Get a bigger one. What else is there to say??
"Night club" is very vague - does it serve food, does it have a load of hot and sweaty ravers, what's the outside temperature etc etc The post referred to gives some idea of the considerations and variance in the answers.

Good luck in your design and if you follow the tips above, eng tips can give you lots of useful information.

The quality of the answer is normally directly proportional to the quality of the question / OP.

LI

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

Perhaps the Mechanical Engineer you should hire to do this work will be able to substitute his opinion fort yours on a structural design.

RE: what recommendations should i give to client?

There is an old saying that goes "There's more than one way to skin a cat." Similarly there's more than one way to provide HVAC to a building. For us to recommend one type of system over another is pure conjecture and assumption. My previous post is based on A LOT of assumptions and personal experience.

There are lots of things to consider when designing an HVAC system not just capacity; from OA requirements to system type to air distribution to sound levels to costs to name a few.

There is a reason we are advocating you hire a local mechanical engineer. You need a proper survey of the existing building. Then coordinate a meeting between yourself, the client and your mechanical engineer to discuss options.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources


Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close