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ME in need of Professional Development Advice
10

ME in need of Professional Development Advice

ME in need of Professional Development Advice

(OP)
Got my BSME in 2002 and worked for an aerospace company from 03-06. Since then I have been an entrepreneur in a completely unrelated industry (non engineering or manufacturing). I'm now looking to get back to my engineering career. I'm planning to take the FE when I've adequately prepped but in the meantime I still need to get a job. In an attempt to brush up on my skills I got my SolidWorks Cert and now I'm looking for more certs I can get relatively quickly and inexpensively to prove my competence has not diminished. Am I on the right track with this strat? If so, what are some additional certs i can pursue? If not, what should I be doing instead? Any advice here would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Maybe, enter a field like transmission and substation design where they are just happy for applicants and don't care about your background.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Initially, I would do a few things to start with:

1. Register for and take a review course for the FE. That should give you a good outline to study from based on the current exams.
2. If you have not already, write a good resume explaining what you have done and would like to pursue in the future.
3. Check into the ME market for the ME discipline you are interested in and research your potential employers. You taking the initiative to learn about them helps in any interview.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

You can do all that, but the bottom line is that you're practically a new grad for the purposes of getting a job. Some calibration of expectations might need to be performed. Whatever certs you get aren't going to come close to making 3 years of experience in the dim past look like more.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Your chances of finding a job in the engineering field will be low at best. The problem will be the gap in employment with no engineering experience. Even a new graduate from the university will have an edge over you simply because they will have no employment gap.

Forget the FE and focus on getting an entry level engineering job or even an intern job. Once you get your foot in the door, you can focus on the FE.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

3
If we could get a mature engineering graduate with good work habits (you know, show up every day, on time, low drama, etc.), at a new graduate rate or even a little more, we'd consider it.
We have to train every new grad anyhow, why not the guy (or girl) who can rent a car?

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

dswitherowME - IMHO, top priority is to get a suitable engineering job (1 to 3 years of applicable experience). If you don't look at the right level, you won't find one. I really like JedClampett's advice, sounds strangely familiar... a few decades ago.

However, while on the job search there is no reason you can't apply to take the FE, do some self-study, and take the exam in the near future. You say that you want "to prove my competence has not diminished". Passing the exam is proof positive and a lot more focused than spending time and money on a grab bag of certs.

1. The NCEES study materials are low cost.
2. The FE exam can be taken on your schedule.
3. The FE exam pass rate is high. The intent is not to "weed out" engineers on this first exam.
4. If you pass, it is obvious to a potential employer that you are serious about a career in engineering.
5. There are no negative consequences for not passing... especially since you currently don't have an employer. If fact, "failure" establishes that, in the future, time and money spent on a conscientious FE study program will be well spent.

Some years ago, I taught a PE review course at a local college. The students who planned to take that exam when they were "adequately prepped" have never taken the exam. It is easy to talk yourself into that trap.

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RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

metengr,
"Your chances of finding a job in the engineering field will be low at best."

Lets call this the positive scenario. Now lets suppose that for the neutral scenario, chances are null.
Can you enlighten us what the negative scenario would look like for him/her?

I am curious to learn and educate myself through your own eyes on how merciless the world we live in is.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

If you have a mechanical engineering society or PE society nearby, see about joining as a junior member. They can help with your efforts and you are likely to meet possible employers there. In any case it always is a good thing to show on your resume.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

rotw;

Quote:

Can you enlighten us what the negative scenario would look like for him/her?

Yes, the negative scenario is working outside of the ME discipline. Which could yield greater returns. Ya never know.

To increase my chances, I would perhaps go back to the university, while looking for a job, and take several additional evening classes to improve my chances for employment. At least you can avoid this non-engineering gap in employment.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

metengr,

Based on your last input, can I make the interpretation that by broadening your skills/competency to non ME skills you could expand your job search to wide range of engineering disciplines, so that - even in the worst case - chances of finding a job in the engineering field would still exist? :)

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

rotw;
Actually, I was thinking of several more ME classes to show continued learning and marketability.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Network, network, network. Get your FE, sell your experience in project management as an entrepreneur like there's no tomorrow, and did I mention networking? I agree with others that your initial path back into a technical role might not be easy, but I think it is possible...especially if you network.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

(OP)
All the advise is much appreciated. I fully understand the difficulties created by the laps in "relevant experience." That's the whole reason I am reaching out for advice. I expect the hunt will be a long one and I'm ok with an entry level job. I'm passionate about getting back into the field, so if it takes time, it takes time. The continued education classes are a great idea and more of what I was looking for than certifications. Although, many of the continuing education classes do result in a certification (Six Sigma, PMP etc.) I also fully intend to study for and take the FE. EIT certifications are another that I'm noticing on a lot of employer's wish lists. Are there any continuing education classes or specialized university classes that are more desirable (or less desirable) that you all are seeing? I'm seeing a ton of HVAC out there.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Getting the EIT cert should prove to skeptical managers that you can and did shake off the rust. I'd even highlight the year of the certification so that it doesn't also get discounted as being old. I would still apply for jobs while prepping for the FE exam. If you're ready to step back in at ground zero in terms of position and pay, I bet a lot of employers would be willing to give you a shot. Taking some college courses grounded in decades old theory is not the way to put your knowledge base into the fray IMO. Unless you go whole hog and get a master's degree, I see little advantage in college courses over just getting the EIT to prove you still "got it" in terms of technical ability for most jobs.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Not sure your location or the industry you are looking to get into but if you are in the US I would focus on getting your resume out there first and foremost. You are directly competing with students graduating in the next few weeks and the hiring boom we have been seeing is likely to slow significantly as we get into early summer.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

One of my responsibilities is to hire engineers. While some may actually find young engineers to have problems with responsibility, dedication and work ethic, that is not my company's experience. We don't hire those people- we pass them over when they co-op with us. Our fresh grads are as good as or better than fresh grads have ever been- in fact at present they're better since the depressed labour market is giving us access to the very cream of the crop. That situation sucks, and I've been working for a decade to try to change it, but it persists nonetheless. Of course, your mileage may vary, depending on the labour market where you live or are willing to move to.

Even if I were to get an engineering grad with limited experience from a decade ago for a fresh grad's rate, I'm not naive enough to think that such a person would be satisfied with the pay of a 3rd yr engineer once they have three years under their belt, even though that would actually be fair. So personally, I'd pass. I wish the OP well, but personally I wouldn't hold out much hope of returning to the engineering profession in an oversupplied labour market after a decade's absence. If there were actually a shortage of engineers, that would of course change.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Perhaps the engineer that had 3 years experience a decade ago who gains 3 more in the future would have worth beyond one with only 3 years.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

moltenmetal, what niche of engineering are you in? I'm curious to know what industries are slow because in manufacturing I'm seeing the longest lead times in recent years, mass hiring, and good times all around. The local universities have also been seeing higher than normal numbers of students hired prior to graduating which is great for me personally as my wife is FINALLY among them.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

CWB1: chemical, manufacturing of chemical plants. Glad to hear things are good for you and your wife, but we were seeing interest from 4th yr students in late March that would, in a decent employment climate, have been snapped up in January ahead of a May graduation. Of course, that's just an anecdote like yours, so not worth much. The stats for the overall Canadian engineering labour market, as well as the job records of co-op students currently in the system, are more important and in fact match our observations as well. The proportion of eng grads working as engineers has fallen from ~70% to ~30% over the past few decades, and the trend is going nowhere but down from there.

Terratek: 3 yrs + 3 yrs with a 10 yr gap between is worth more than 3 yrs, but less than 6 yrs if it were all gained in the recent past. 3 yrs plus 10 yrs of something outside the field is rather soon going to feel like an entitlement to being paid as if they had 13 yrs post grad of 100% relevant experience, irrespective of what it took to get an initial foot in the door. That's just human nature at work, which you ignore at your peril. It's a recipe for a rapidly growing mismatch between salary expectations and a reasonable calculation of market value, which often leads to hard feelings. It would get the resume filed in the blue bin automatically here unless the 3yrs of prior experience was exactly relevant.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

IIRC, he's in Ontario. I'm in western Canada and over here there is absolutely nothing for new grads regardless of discipline, excepts for computer engineers working in comp sci fields, as for whatever reason tech is booming in my small prairie city

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

(OP)
moltenmetal, I can't overstate how much I understand the inherent difficulties in what i'm trying to do. Additionally, I reject the supposition that I would expect to be treated as someone who had 3 years experience even if I took an entry level position. I'd simply be happy to be back in a field that I enjoy being a part of. I expect to be treated like a green engineer despite experience because I understand better than anyone that it is irrelevant due to it being a decade ago. I would fully agree with you that 3yrs (recent) + 3yrs (10yrs removed) certainly doesn't equal 6yrs. It equals 3. My goal is to ultimately get my PE so literally anything that puts one foot in front of the other down that path is acceptable by me. That said, I'd agree that most employers would share your supposition and I'm sure that is where I'll have difficulty. The purpose of this post wasn't to ascertain what difficulties lie before me or what rationale brings them into existence, but to ask for opinion/advice to start to overcome those difficulties. In that spirit, as an employer if you see that expressed as part of a resume or cover letter, would that carry any consideration?

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

2
HVAC would probably be practically begging you to start working in the southeast where the economy is not soft at all. No knock on moltenmetal, but considering your past experience, you may not want to know how to overcome a fixed mindset like his because it might not be fun at all working for someone like him. Not to say he would not be a good boss - he has some good insight and makes many good contributions here. However, he does appear to have a methodology that does not deviate much. Since you were doing your own thing for a while, this might not be an appealing type of atmosphere for you to work in. Concentrate on appealing to the type of people you want to work for. My guess is that the type of person you would want to work for is exactly the type of person who would find appeal in your non-traditional experience.

FWIW, I am also a hiring manager.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Terratek: no offense taken. We learned some hard lessons about what didn't work for us- those lessons cost us a lot of money and brought a lot of suffering to our staff. We found an approach that works for us- hiring co-ops, picking the best and hiring them as fresh grads etc. That approach has worked very well for us for a decade now. All the concerns we hear from others about our approach- about having to mollycoddle millennials, or that they're dumber or less practical than previous generations of engineers, or having them leave after a few years of sunk training cost, or not being able to contribute meaningfully to the bottom line for years- some of that stuff may well be true elsewhere, but our experience shows that none of it is applicable to what we're actually doing. The co-op program gives us a filter which is 100,000x as effective as our best interview process. And that filter works both ways- there are great candidates who come up through our co-op program, who might make stellar employees elsewhere, but whose interests and aptitudes are different than what we need or can provide here.

We deviate from our plan from time to time, when exceptional candidates present themselves, but now we're MUCH more choosy when we do so because they have to compete against a much higher quality default outcome. Our approach wouldn't work for a firm smaller than a certain size, for sure. Others may have a different approach which works for them, and good luck to them with it.

I can guarantee that dswitherowME is going to face concern on the part of hiring managers about salary expectations after a few years, and in fact has asked for advice on how to overcome that concern in a covering letter etc. Aside from just honestly stating what was just said in their last post in a cover letter and getting others to read and edit it for effectiveness, my advice would be to try to find a 1st job through networking and personal relationships rather than by indirect means. The likelihood of making a connection which will give the prospective employer the comfort that you're sincere in this assertion and worth making a personal investment in, is much greater that way. I do wish you the best of luck. I don't know where you're from, or where you're looking for work, but maybe the labour situation is different there than it is here. Here, your situation would be very tough indeed.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Interesting comments all around, sounds like Canada may be night/day difference than the US. My experience in this area is more from the perspective as a part time university mentor/adjunct and traveling "technical recruiter" at university events (in addition to the engineering day-job), though I have worn the managerial hat too. If the OP was in a major metro area here stateside and applying today I would expect him to have the first round of phone interviews within 2-3 weeks and on-site interviews within a month the same as fresh grads. Most manufacturing companies I've interacted with have been on a serious hiring kick since the election last fall and discussion on various manufacturing forums also seems to bear this out. I also wouldn't foresee any future salary issues unless the OP wanted to live out in BFE where his employment options were severely limited, out there companies do pay what they can get away with (bloody rape in some areas) but in major metro areas I'd expect him to be happy. Its been a year or two since I saw a ASME/SAE jobs survey, but last I knew the median for three years experience stateside was ~$80k with a healthy percentage making far more. Only the OP can decide if how much is enough, I wouldn't describe most MEs as rich playboys but well-off and hard-working seem fitting, most working after 25 years do so out of want rather than need including those with poor money-management skills.

To add onto my earlier thoughts, the OP should get his resume out there ASAP and continue applying. Treat the application process as you would the actual job and spend a few hours each night applying. If you know the industry you want to be in, make a list of the large companies then spend some time googling to see who their suppliers, customers, and "partners" are to find additional job leads. One good way to get your foot in the door, especially if you may not want to stay in core engineering forever is to take a "technical specialist" or other such role within a corporate marketing, sales, product definition, or other departments as many companies in recent decades have replaced these typical "business" roles with engineers to provide a better interface between the customer and product/service development, hence a major reason for the drop in those with engineering degrees in "engineering" - bc those folks often earn more. And as always network, network, network....

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

When America zigs we zag, at least lately. The housing crisis in the states was actually a good time for job prospects up here, but as the economy improved down south, commodity prices dried up and so did the jobs, and now America is the place to be. Thanks Obama...

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

dswitherowME, Someone said, whoever says he CAN and whoever says he CAN'T are both usually right...I am sure you will make it thanks to your attitude. Your attitude is worth much better that '3+3' versus '3+10+3' comparisons, etc.
By the way, I have nothing against statistics - it may give insight and reveal patterns at some occasions; it is when we try to stretch the reality into a model or a curve or even a number - that things start to not smell very well.

RE: ME in need of Professional Development Advice

Entrepreneurship + technical background, have you thought about applying for management and sales, or technical sales related positions? I know it's not as glamourous as the actual work, but I bet they pay just as well and have a good alignment with your current skill sets. and better than starting from scratch as a new grad equivalent?

I had friends whom returned to the industry after a long absence, and they had good luck coming back to the industry 'side-ways' in this method! Best of luck!

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