Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
(OP)
I will keep this as point form and general as possible in order to keep things clear.
I work for the structural engineering firm who was hired by the contractor to design and provide construction phase services. I am not personally involved, I’m posting this on behalf of the intern (EIT) who did most of the design and is doing the construction review.
- 5 storey building, ICF walls.
- ICF contractor is incompetent, and the prime refuses to watch over them and ensure that things get built right.
- The workmanship on some of the concrete walls is by far the worst that I’ve seen in my career (from pictures I’ve seen).
- This is a classic “ask for forgiveness, not for permission” situation, where the contractor constantly asked for repair details every time something is built wrong instead of ensuring that the reinforcing steel is correct before pouring concrete.
- Examples of some of the bigger issues so far: rough openings for doors/windows misaligned requiring cutting openings biggest (resulting in compromising the vertical steel on each side of the opening), improper vibration of the concrete resulting is very very large areas of voids/air pockets in the walls.
My question is, what recourse do we have to make the contractor build things correctly? Do we tip off the municipality and get them to be more present? That seems underhanded since the contractor is our client.
I’m not sure to what extend the developer is aware that he is getting a sub-par quality building. What if we get to the point where we don’t feel comfortable granting occupancy, the developer would likely sue the contractor and as a result sue us?
I work for the structural engineering firm who was hired by the contractor to design and provide construction phase services. I am not personally involved, I’m posting this on behalf of the intern (EIT) who did most of the design and is doing the construction review.
- 5 storey building, ICF walls.
- ICF contractor is incompetent, and the prime refuses to watch over them and ensure that things get built right.
- The workmanship on some of the concrete walls is by far the worst that I’ve seen in my career (from pictures I’ve seen).
- This is a classic “ask for forgiveness, not for permission” situation, where the contractor constantly asked for repair details every time something is built wrong instead of ensuring that the reinforcing steel is correct before pouring concrete.
- Examples of some of the bigger issues so far: rough openings for doors/windows misaligned requiring cutting openings biggest (resulting in compromising the vertical steel on each side of the opening), improper vibration of the concrete resulting is very very large areas of voids/air pockets in the walls.
My question is, what recourse do we have to make the contractor build things correctly? Do we tip off the municipality and get them to be more present? That seems underhanded since the contractor is our client.
I’m not sure to what extend the developer is aware that he is getting a sub-par quality building. What if we get to the point where we don’t feel comfortable granting occupancy, the developer would likely sue the contractor and as a result sue us?





RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
My state board has a lawyer on staff that I can call with questions exactly like this, for free. Maybe try calling your version of that.
Please remember: we're not all guys!
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
*You'll get sued if the certificate of occupancy is delayed.
*You'll get sued when the shoddy workmanship is revealed. And it will be.
I'm not sure the municipality is going to be a big help. Most of them are very scared of rocking the boat. But some are pretty good. That's your call.
I'd get your company's risk management department (lawyers) involved. They'll probably recommend a heavy dose of documentation to the prime, just so you have a paper trail.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
I will look into our province's governing body to see if they have a help line to call.
JedClampett, I think you're right that the municipality is scared to get too involved.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
I would exhaust all other channels first, but would have no problem going scorched earth on a negligent contractor.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
Part of me thinks, why is there no governing body for contractors, where bad ones can be disciplined, have their license removed, fined or put in jail? Where bad contractors can be prevented from "practicing".
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
Just because the GC is your client doesn't mean you have to tell them what they want to hear or be silent on real issues.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
If the fixes are compromising the building stability, design, then as the engineer you need to say no, otherwise, why didnt you just design it that way in the first place.
Fixes that are expensive will straighten them up quickly.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
jrisebo:
"Fixes that are expensive will straighten them up quickly."
That is my line of thinking as well. I try and be reasonable and not be labelled an engineer who's hard to deal with, but I do believe when the line has been crossed, an expensive "chip it out and re-cast" sets the contractor straight.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
And I always thought those two were mutually exclusive
The EIT is supposedly working under the supervision of a PE. Is that you? Are you a PE? Even the EIT, and certainly, his PE supervisor, and you, have an ethical responsibility to bring to light problems that potentially affect safety.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
I'm not the PE. I am not involved with this project at all, other than the EIT talks to me about it.
molibden:
We don't have this on most projects. It would be nice to have but I can't see most developers wanting to pay for a full time engineer.
RE: Hired by contractor incapable of competent work, what to do?
The EOR isn't really sweating over these issues.
cvg:
In my experience, working for architects presents it's own set of challenges, getting paid for extras for example. I suppose the best case is working directly for the developer?