Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
(OP)
Hmmm....wonder how this might affect engineering licensure (if at all).
Or is this aimed at licenses for only things like cutting hair or installing an air conditioner?
Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
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Or is this aimed at licenses for only things like cutting hair or installing an air conditioner?
Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
These governors seem to forget that unfettered business was why places like LA had Stage 3 smog alerts, and why there were clustered cases of leukemia in San Jose and other cities. They work for the people, not unfettered business; they should that tattooed on themselves as part of the oath of office.
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
One hopes that engineers can explain why they need to licensed.
--
JHG
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
http://humphreyonthehill.tnjournal.net/lawsuit-cha...
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
California calls for 1600 hr class and 3200 apprenticeship. Given that it takes more than book learning to be good at styling hair, it doesn't sound completely unreasonable.
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
It happens, both physically, and mentally. Mostly, it's lice and general unsanitary practices.
"shouldnt there be inspections to make sure that the facility is clean"
Does anyone seriously think that the government is any better at inspection? We've cut back on inspections, even for more important things like our restaurants and our food supply. The cost of maintaining a licensing board is substantially lower than paying for a bunch of inspectors that have to cover the state of California, or Texas. We're not even willing to fund the number of IRS agents to retrieve actual money, and there's no additional money to be gained from inspections.
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Doctor's require a minimum of 3 yrs on the job training. These guys are going to get almost as close to your skin and innards; I think a little bit of supervised training is in order.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
So the governor decided to make all licensing boards review their charters, more or less, including the Board of Technical Registration (which licenses engineers, surveyors, and home inspectors). The purpose of the review is to make sure the regulations in which the Boards follow do not exceed the national average. In areas in which the regulations are more strict than the national average, the Board has to justify the reason for being so strict or to revise the regulation to match the national average.
The purpose of the review is to make sure more individuals are capable of getting a job - obtaining a license should not be the reason a capable person cannot be employed due to unreasonable requirements of licensure. Also, the governor hopes to continue to make Arizona very business friendly, so more organizations will continue to do business here.
--Scott
www.aerornd.com
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
So yes cvg people have been quite seriously injured by bad hair cuts and the like.
Some hair dressers (i.e. Voters) are probably as ignorant about why engineers need to be licensed as some of us seem to be about hairdressers needing to be.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/suing-...
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
By that line of reasoning, PEs shouldn't be licensed, since that won't prevent all the failures cited in this forum.
As stated elsewhere, licensing provides a minimum level of competency, but people still need to be policed, because people are neither perfect nor perfectly good.
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
I actually found that to be a sorry application of very good laws meant to protect the public. He was not practicing engineering nor selling services to the public under false pretenses. He made a claim that he's an electronics engineer, which I've seen no reason to doubt. Like it or not, there are myriad job titles with the word 'engineer' in them, many of which not regulated by state boards. How many mechanical engineers practice actual engineering without a state license?
To fine him and go after him with legal action is just ludicrous. $500 seems like it's on the very-low end of the scale of fines from what I read of people getting slapped with unlicensed practice, but maybe in Oregon that's not abnormal. I still find it to be a silly application of the law.
He apparently used his job title (current or former, I don't know) to attempt to establish some sort of mathematical analysis acumen before launching into his data analysis. I don't have anything against it. I would think anyone would do similar when introducing themselves prior to such discourse, whether it be a physics teacher, statistics professor, or engineering professor. It's just establishing some sort of context that may make the reader more likely to give the reasoning weight.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
This is exactly the point.
Every normal person would see the situation the way you described it, except... people who's job is to protect the integrity of engineering profession.
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
That said, I am very happy the boards do exist. Humans will make mistakes, and I'm one of the first to be bitter about 'beaurocratic' effects in offices, but I wouldn't dare suggest the abolishing of the public protections afforded by licensing boards and enforced standards. I would not want to live in the USA that existed before engineering codes and regulations, most of which were lessons won via loss of lives.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Maybe occasional government intervention like described in OP is not entirely bad thing?
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Simply asking the question or auditing efficacy is not, imo, a sign that someone wishes to do away with good regulation. Periodic evaluation, so long as it's done with a level head, is necessary. Especially when it's an organization serving the public.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
Having grown up in rural America which our country predominantly is to this day, I often wonder what if any difference to the general public regulation and code would make today. Realistically, many (most?) areas are still not subject to building inspections and even highly regulated areas have their share of "criminals" successfully finding ways around regulation without major disasters occurring. While I have no issue with licensing or other regulation if data proves its worthwhile, I don't believe any of it is data-driven as it should be but rather is fear and greed driven as much of politics is.
OTOH, I firmly believe that our profession has done a remarkable job over the past few centuries of refining and standardizing materials, components, and techniques that have had the huge impact I believe you are attributing elsewhere.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
St Louis City, however, just recently found out why boiler inspections and codes are vital: http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/us/st-louis-boiler-e...
The State of Missouri requires inspections of pressure vessels periodically but for reasons I don't know, leaves STL City exempt from that requirement. They simply require there be an engineer 'on duty' if they run boilers, which they did.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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Irvine, CA
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
I would wager that far more urban/suburban Americans would be surprised by the lack of oversight common in our heartlands than rural folks living it, and many would find it unbelievable. I always get a giggle when I tell someone of plans to remodel or build a garage and their first concern is permitting or inspections, neither has been a valid concern for most of my life and my worst experiences with building construction have been in highly regulated areas. JMO but I believe most folks' sense of acceptable minimum quality has far more to do with most buildings meeting code than the actual regulation does, many Americans might shop at Walmart but are a bit more picky when it comes to major purchases. There will always be occasions of bad things happening, I simply believe that the doomsday scenarios speculating on an un/less regulated world to be vastly overblown.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
I built a fence in my backyard. No one cares. (tornadoes, and rural)
When I lived in Louisiana, it would require a permit and design review (hurricanes, but in large city)
I think we'd see far more industrial accidents if regulations go away. I have known far too many plant managers and maintenance engineers who only barely, begrudgingly, allowed budget for basic safety and inspection investments. To think what they would do (and get away with) when someone isn't able to slap codes/laws/standards in their face...
I suppose I think less of the potential of humans for negligence than you. Not a doomsday scenario, but certainly something I see making civilization less civilized.
RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
People don't seem to learn, so I'd believe in a heartbeat that if the EPA crippled the Clean Air Act, we'd be seeing as bad a smog as they have in China right now. In fact, China should be a poster child for unfettered business run amuck. Even when people know that if what they're doing gets bad enough, they'll face a firing squad, they still do it. We had regular Stage 3 smog alerts in LA in the 1970s where we were told, rightly so, that going outside would hurt our health. My Uber driver from a few months back moved back to the US because his nice, clean US lungs (thanks to EPA) couldn't handle breathing in Shanghai smog.
We had children dying of leukemia and other illnesses in San Jose in the 1970s because it was easier for IBM and Fairchild to dump their TCE into the groundwater than to dispose of it safely.
Now, it's possible that social media smog-shaming and pollution-shaming might rein that sort of behavior in, but that's not something that I'd bet my children's lives on.
Given the high cost of copper do we really want to see the effects of using cheaper aluminum wiring again? Do we really want safety of our children to be based solely on how much we, as parents, are willing or able to spend to buy copper wiring for our homes?
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Arizona’s Governor to Licensing Boards: What Is It That You Do?
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without