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Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
We just had the short z-sensor cable replaced, and the machine worked fine for 1 day. The next day, the head did not detect the sheet metal but stopped at 14-15 mm above the sheet and start cutting.

We are using HS-2000 sensor. Head calibration worked fine (with Trace OFF). See Video here:
https://youtu.be/p-_nVzMZH2Y

Problem was when we ran program (Trace Off not lit) that the head refused to come down and detect the sheet before starting to cut. See Video here:
https://youtu.be/5BFi9CGT-sY

Local technicians tried replacing the cone, the nozzle, the internal sensor cable, the short sensor cable, and the HS-2000 board. They even restored the entire machine parameters from SRAM backup. Nothing seemed to solve the problem.

Any idea, please?

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Change the M102 line to a different material thickness turn the shutter key off and do a dry run and see if it acts the same way.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

This is just a guess. I ran into something similar a few weeks back.

There is a cable that plugs into the the control JA6. Its has a grey plug and comes from the sensor board. Make sure its plugged in.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
Thank you for all the advice... will try them out in the evening and report the results.

The local technician mentioned that he used to adjust touch level of HS-2003 (FO machine) by changing K48.1 value from 0 to 1... and then adjust manually (but he doubted that the HS-2000 will use the same K48.1 keep relay). Would doing this helps?

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

man we just went through all this last summer, IT was a miserable process. exact same thing was happening I will try and find the post and see what it ended up being though.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Ok ours we ended up hooking up the external z cable to the outside of the cone and it got us by till the tech came back. Anyways thats all i got. Good luck

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Ah yes Mr. Hookie,

I remember that. That was a good time. Maybe a record for number of post. This problem is similar. But in the video it looks like the sensor is not even looking for the material. Remember how your machine would "look for" the metal 3.5" above the deck. This one doesn't do that at all. To me, that means that there isn't communication between the sensor board and the control. I suppose it could be a parameter or keep relay ( i don't know K48.1) or like your machine, the mechanic screwed up. I think he/she didn't put the cable back when he replaced the sensor board or something like that.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

yea, i remember it was the first time I Angered the LAserNinja :-)

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
Yes... I read that thread many many times... very informative.

jjl1210:
When material thickness was set at 1.2 mm, the head started cutting at 11-12 mm above the material (the Z value on the screen was fluctuating all the time but within this range)... when I changed the thickness to 0.5 mm, the head lowered itself accordingly to around 10-11 mm.

LASERNINJA:
I also checked the JA6 cable, it was intact. But I pulled it out and checked with ohm-meter anyway. It was OK.


The technicians came again today and checked the DIP switch setting on the HS-2000 board, the setting was correct... they still could not solve the problem, though.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Has the head been knocked at all?

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Sure its nothing to do with a faulty connection?
If the she connector on the cone has been repaired by soldering a new one there and not covered the cable side up properly i would say this error could occur.
Or is the pin in the connector faulty, or has the cover broke on the she connector on the cone ?

Just some things that poped up in my head by previous experience.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
Amada technicians recently came with spareparts... replacing the cone + nozzle + external cable + internal cable + HS-2000 board.

Still did not solve the problem.

What they did not replace were the JA6 and the ribbon cables. But they did check both cables for connection faults (did not find any).

I double checked the JA6 cable myself, but not the ribbon cable.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

If you open diagnostic 906 (I think) should be "trace data". on my FO3015NT it will read -32xxx when there is nothing touching the nozzle. if you touch the nozzle with your finger it should go +32xxx. it should also bounce around if you just hover 1-2mm around the bottom if the tip. If it is not reading like I said, then there is something wrong with the z tracking system. have you tried running a new long z wire externally to see if that fixes it?

Ive also had the little copper ring that sits in the plug get worn down enough where it wasn't making contact with the nozzle. I don't know if your machine uses it or not but just another idea.
Im curious to see how this plays out, good luck.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
Found the Trace Data... the number was 2x... and did not change when the nozzle was touched. See here:

https://youtu.be/R2hS3UsxY08

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

this is simple stuff but make sure ur air line isn't making contact with cone we have issues when ours does, iv taped air line where it makes contact and taped back metal casing on air line back away from cone but im still wondering why ur operation stop button is on?

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
@LaserSpyder
We pressed the operation stop button by mistake, sorry.


Update...
Yesterday Fanuc technician came in to check the serial comm. board that the JA6 cable was plugged into... not faulty.

To summarize what we had done to date:
Cone... checked
Ceramic Ring... checked
External Z Cable... checked
Internal Z Cable... checked
HS-2000 board... checked
JA6 Cable... checked
Ribbon Cable (from HS-2000 board)... checked
Fanuc Serial Communication Board (and ram)... checked
N1 Cable (from controller to back of machine)... checked
Machine Parameters... checked

Nozzle... not checked (no replacement part)

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
Still... the problem remains.


HS-98 Regulation sequence...OK
Z-Sensor Wire Break alarm... OK
Trace data... not OK (stuck at 28)
Cutting (with Trace Off)... OK
Cutting (no Trace Off)... not OK (failed to "look for" material and tracing not working)


Aaaaahhh... this is getting discouraging.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
I need help in verifying whether this is normal.

1. I pulled the Trace Data onto the screen.
2. Trace data reading was 20-28 (fluctuating).
3. External Z-Sensor was pulled out... wire break alarm.
4. Put back Z-Sensor... alarm went away.
5. Removed nozzle... wire break alarm.
6. Put your finger (or metallic material) near the tip of the head (without touching)... wire break alarm went away.
7. Pull your finger away from the tip... wire break alarm came back.
8. Trace data remains unaffected throughout the process.


Does this mean that the sensor is working, but the data somehow did not get to the controller (so the trace data got stuck at 28)?

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

It sounds like there is something shorting to the cone. I am not familiar with your machine but the trace data on my FO NT will go 32,xxx when it is on material and -32,xxx when off. Like Laserspyder said, check to make sure there are no metal hose covers or wire touching anywhere on the cone.

You don't have water assist on by chance? (just a thought)
Are you using Amada brand ceramic plugs? I have had some hypertherm plugs that we got a lot cheaper cause a no calibration problem. (another thought)

Have you tried doing an HS sensor calibration when you have turn the "Trace Off" feature ON? try doing that and watch the trace data # and see what it does during the calibration.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
@sparky4808
HS sensor calibration ran faultless both with "Trace Off" and without "Trace Off" (during which time the "Trace Data" remained stuck at 20-28).



We measured the output voltage across the "Sensor Out" pins of the HS-2000 board (the pins where the JA6 cable was plugged into) while manually jogged the Z-axis. During Z values of 3.3 mm to 0.8 mm, the output voltage varied between +/- 3.6VDC.

Then, we pulled out the JA6 cable from the HS-2000 board and measured again. This time the output voltage varied between +/- 12VDC.

Could anyone who has data on Fanuc 160i-L with HS-2000 sensor please help verify this voltage?


Thank you very much.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
By the way, we don't know how to test for shorting to the cone... so we removed the cone from the head and placed it outside the machine on the concrete floor. Then we connected the Z-sensor and Ground cables to it.

No Z-sensor wire break alarm... but the "Trace Data" remained stuck at 20-28... no change in reading whatsoever.




RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

This signal should be 8.9V at nozzle gap
with 2.0mm, 0V with 1.5mm, -8.9V with 2.8mm
Check & advise

Carefully Do this check, what happens?
G32 R_ ; Z-axis follow mode ON
G33 ; Z-axis follow mode OFF
R_ indicates a nozzle gap amount. For example, when R=1.5, the nozzle gap is 1.5mm.
When R=0.3, the nozzle gap is 0.3mm.


RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
@ausman
Thank you very much for your info... please advise:
1. Did you get those readings with JA6 cable plugged in to Fanuc board (or without)?
2. I believed you meant to type "-8.9V with 0.8mm", is that correct?

We will try the G32 R_ command tomorrow and reply.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

From Amada documentation (there is no reason for me to doubt these values)
This signal should be 8.9V at nozzle gap
with 2.0mm, 0V with 1.5mm, -8.9V with 2.8mm

Have you tried testing the head with the aluminium function selected? this function enables a slow response mode on the HS98.
Might or might not do anything for you, worth checking.


Based on he differences you have JA6 plugged in & not plugged in
I would check the PCB actual output voltages with JA6 not plugged in.
If you confirm the voltages are correct on the HS98 PCB at the about the 3 different gap amount then I would believe the problem is not the HS98.

Maybe the A/D chip on the Fanuc PCB is shagged?
Might explain the large voltage differences when JA6 plugged in and the fact that the trace data is not showing the correct digital gap values.

If you want to get technical, do this at your own risk
get a small variable DC power supply, (one with adjustable knob & LCD screen for the voltage readout)
Use this on lieu of the HS98 connected to the Fanuc analogue board to imitate the HS98 output voltage of -9.8 volt to 9.8 volt)
Then check your trace data values are where there are supposed to be.
this should determine the if analogue to digital fanuc board is functioning correctly.

Just things I would be testing if I was in your shoes.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

maybe ceramic below nozzle?

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

I realize this is late in the fourth quarter. But another idea I had was to check the resistance of the wecone and wire assembly. It's similar to other tests you have done but I am better at interpreting the results doing it this way.

From the nozzle to the center of the coax cable should be about one ohm or less. Then, add the short cable to the test. It should be a bit higher but less than two ohms. Then please check the nozzle to everything else around the nozzle itself. It has to be open. Not kilo ohms, not mega ohms.

Finally the big brown cable should be around 11 ohms. I know u said this stuff was all new but based on the fantastic help you have gotten already... It really should be in one of these three places.

P.S. I don't think it's the JA6 anymore. The nozzle wouldn't bounce / flutter if it was disconnected.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

fixed??

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
At last, we found the problem... a very simple one.

The JA6 cable was plugged into the wrong socket (on the wrong board).

See the attached picture... someone mistakenly made red-color marks on the JD6A socket and the JA6 plug... so even though we checked the JA6 plug so many times, it was naturally plugged back into the wrong socket. Nobody noticed the JA6 socket on the adjacent board.

It was the Fanuc technician who pointed that out (on his 2nd service call). Amada technicians already spent more than 40 man-hours on this machine... never crossed their minds.

It was a very funny incident... and yet so sad.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your help and advice... you all had been very supportive... I really appreciated it.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Glad to see it resolved, what initiated unplugging JA6 to begin with? Was there another issue that you resolved in this fault finding process that you didn't note?
Thanks





RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

(OP)
This machine is serviced by Amada, Fanuc, in-house technician, and private service company... no one knew exactly how this could happen.

Our current focus is on a different issue. Due to the rather inexperienced technicians from Amada... during their 2-month troubleshooting sessions, our HS-2000 board malfunctioned and needed to be replaced (this costs around USD7000).

The focus is now on why the HS-2000 board malfunctioned and who is going to pay for it.

So the headache continued.

RE: Cutting head started cutting at 14-15 mm above the sheet - Amada LC-2415 Alpha III

Man I will say we went through a similar thing a couple years ago. wont go into all the details bet we Left Amada and went to laser experts which was an even worse situation. Now i just do as much of our in house stuff as possible. If I cant figure it out Laserninja and Laserspider have saved me on more than one occasion. I guess i cant complain too much though honestly because ive learned more over the past 3 years than i ever thought possible. Just hang in there good sir.

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