INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Jobs

Structural definition for stormwater?

Structural definition for stormwater?

(OP)
NY State's General Permit for stormwater control says:

Quote:

Qualified Inspector - means a person that is knowledgeable in the principles and practices of erosion and sediment control, such as a licensed Professional Engineer, Certified Professional in Erosion and Sediment Control (CPESC), Registered Landscape Architect, or other Department endorsed individual(s).
...
Note: Inspections of any post-construction stormwater management practices that include structural components, such as a dam for an impoundment, shall be performed by a licensed Professional Engineer.

This makes sense, but doesn't give any guidance on what is considered "structural." I'd think it would cover stormwater practices that could cause a risk to the public if there was a major failure, such as a breached dam or a sinkhole from a collapsed infiltration system beneath a parking lot. Out regional Department of Environmental Protection seems to think it's much broader, and basically implied our CPESC cant do final inspections. I don't see why he couldn't inspect wet swales or checkdams, for example.

I'd like to hear your experiences and interpretations.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

Why don't you contact the writer of the permit and ask for there opinion?

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

(OP)
We may have to do that, but maybe going over the head of the official we have to work with shouldn't be our first resort.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

Bridge or culvert or sidewalk or walkway over a stormwater drain pot, retention walls around a drain pit, erosion control structure or liners for a drain pit overflow path. Guardrails or supports for any of those.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

(OP)
racookpe, yeah, things that would normally be considered structures. That's what I would think, but we're dealing with the bureaucratic mind. There's no telling what goes on in there....

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

stormwater just uses "structural" weird. google "structural stormwater bmps" and you will get many hits of published standards that refer to all kinds of things that wouldn't normally be considered structural. some are actually a little structural from an engineering perspective. still..... a detention pond with a berm have a much better chance of getting signed off on by a Civil Site Egr or a Geotech Egr manager for a testing firm than they do a structural engineer.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

Have checked for definitions in applicable rules and regulations?

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

AC...I think the same as you and racookpe....structure means any structure in the stormwater management system.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

from what i can tell structural stormwater bmps just means anything that has to be built to deal with stormwater. could be just a simple roadside ditch.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

The New York State Standards and Specifications for Erosion and Sediment Control has three sections dealing with E&S measures:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/water_pdf/bluebook.pdf

Section 3 Vegetative Measures
Section 4 Biotechnical Measures
and Section 5 Structural Measures

I think it is pretty obvious an item appearing in Section 5 can be considered structural. A landscape architect is certainly qualified to design and inspect proper plantings and sod installation, but PE is qualified to inspect items requiring an engineered design, which are those items appearing in Section 5.

RE: Structural definition for stormwater?

(OP)
Drew, the 2016 edition of that manual changed the chapter titles and no longer uses the term "Structural measures."
http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/29066.html

Section 3 - Erosion Control Part 1 Runoff Control
Section 4 - Erosion Control Part 2 Soil Stabilization
Section 5 - Sediment Control

I've looked through the various manuals and the general permit, and if they define "structure" or "structural practice," I've missed it.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources


Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close