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Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

(OP)


A woof is a colloquial term for a warp. Weavers joke.

So, our living room looks like the daleks have invaded. One of the spinning wheels has a 6mm lateral runout. I don't know whether it is the wooden wheel has developed a warp, or whether the axle is bent. I don't know how the wheel is fixed to the axle, slight amounts of brute force didn't reveal any tendency for the two to separate, or any particular structural problems in the wheel itself.

Any ideas? Apparently it is an excellent wheel, light and tall.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

All I can say is that most I've ever seen have horrendous (to me) warps and no one seems to notice or care.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

I would guess that the wheel warp is from differential drying or wettening between the segments of the rim.

First option would be to do nothing. It's a flywheel primarily. Are you actually spinning yarn on the thing? Do the warp actually affect the outcome?

Where does the relative rotation occur? Between wheel hub and axle, or between the axle and the two uprights?

If you really really want to take the wheel off, I guess that the axle is simply a tight fit. Possibly supplemented by some form of sticky stuff.

Mallet and drift punch will certainly get the axle out.

Then what?

What is the goal? Well intentioned, but inexpert restoration typically reduces the value of antiques. So if the desire is to own a collectible antique with some value, do nothing.

If the value is not important and the goal is to restore it to a precision balanced working machine then go at it.

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

GregLocock,

Did the runout just develop, or has it been there all along? Fabricating a hub accurately centred on spokes inside a wheel would be a challenge for someone using hand tools.

--
JHG

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

(OP)
We think the wheel used to run true, but has been in a garage for the last 8 years and may not have been treated well (ie no humidity or heat control, and it may have had other things stacked up against the wheel and hence bent the axle). The axle drives the wheel therefore there must be some positive clamping between the wheel and the axle. My wife spins on several different machines, she just decided to try this one again and found it to be a good one which is much lighter than her pride and joy and so could be used as on holidays and at shows.

The warp is not sufficient to throw the drive string, it is purely an aesthetic issue. I'm inclined to take the lazy man's approach, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

if running true previously, unlikely the axle is bent unless you can see signs of any real trauma and then you would expect to see other damage - wood warps, just ask me, all my teak doors are warped and twisted and vary according to the weather conditions.

With something like you have there - getting it to run true is possibly impossible.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

I bet you could remove it from the machine and leaving the axle in it, put it in some sort of steam space. Maybe boiling water in a pot, under a tarp or in a BIG laundry pail or something. Set it on a totally flat surface the axle can stick down thru and let it noodle flat.

Bill (waross) can probably tell us a steamed wood tale. :)

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

The repair can be worse than the problem, trust me, I know :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

Give it some time inside. With a reasonably stable humidity and temperature environment it may improve on its own.

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

"Out of round" - depends on the application, and the speed, and the load of the rim and (ultimately) the axle.

First is the axle straight, round, and true?
Are the bearings aligned with the two vertical arms that the wheel rim is sandwiched between ? A out-of-perpendicular plane axle (caused by poor axle shape or poor bearing alignment) will exaggerate the movement of the rim of an out-of-plane wheel)
Is the wheel rim moving side-to-side, or up and down (out of plane mismatch, or out of radial distance mismatch)? The difference will affect how you apply steady force to re-bend the rim + wheel + spokes back to nominal.

How much force (and how much time) do you want to use press the wheel rim back to shape? A static display item, or one not used for spinning thread, will have an different answer than one the operator is forced to look at for hours and hours as the wheel spins in front of her face. A bad wobble could turn a relaxing hobby into an irritating chore in minutes!

(But, as far as the out-of-round woofer, I really don't see any dog caught in the warped wheel ...)

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

The approach that I would use to try and fix the warped wheel is:

With the wheel in the frame, find the high spots of the wobble (using the the frame posts as a reference) and use wedges between the frame posts and the wheel to push the wheel past flat (as there will be springback when the wedges are removed. Leave the wedges in place for days or weeks. Remove the wedges and check for warp. Repeat as needed.

I think the most likely cause of the wobble is that there has been some movement in the spoke joints. It is unlikely that the axle pin bent, considering how stubby it is.

RE: Spoked wooden wheel with a woof in it

(OP)
"Give it some time inside. With a reasonably stable humidity and temperature environment it may improve on its own."

Yes, that is my current plan. Having checked the other wheels we have to hand this one is only slightly worse than the next worst (two run true, one because it is a synthetic solid wheel, so much for romance).

Cunningly the designer did not use a grooved wheel, but a wide flat land, so the string can run where it likes. The only complication is that it is a double drive, one continuous loop doubled that drives both the flyer and the bobbin.

I can't check the axle without removing it. On further inspection I suspect the mid part of the axle is threaded, so the wheel is clamped between a flat nut and a large threaded washer. The ends of the axle are turned down to go through the journals. My guess is that removing it will also need me to press the journals out. This starts to get into a serious project.

I am loathe to straighten the rim in situ unless I am sure that it is the problem. Once it is out to check the axle then straightening it will be an exercise in heat and weight application, and time.

Yes I do need a dial gauge!

One enormous problem with all these wooden wheels is splitting and general fragility, even though they are less than 30 years old. Just yesterday I dropped a bobbin on a slate floor and it cracked in two.


Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

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