Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
(OP)
That was mouthful. So imagine this:
1) You digitally stamp some drawings in full compliance with all of the statues etc.
2) The building department insists on hard copies so your client prints out your drawings and turns 'em in.
Anybody experienced push back in terms of accepting the printed versions of the digitally stamped versions?
I would have thought that the printed set would have lost all of it's validity as a stamped document. However, I called the WA department of licensing and they said that it should be fine. I could hear a little hesitation in the guy's voice though.
Anybody have any personal experiences to to relay? Shipping drawings to WA form Canada is going to be a pain. That said, I don't want my client to be getting hassled at the desk.
1) You digitally stamp some drawings in full compliance with all of the statues etc.
2) The building department insists on hard copies so your client prints out your drawings and turns 'em in.
Anybody experienced push back in terms of accepting the printed versions of the digitally stamped versions?
I would have thought that the printed set would have lost all of it's validity as a stamped document. However, I called the WA department of licensing and they said that it should be fine. I could hear a little hesitation in the guy's voice though.
Anybody have any personal experiences to to relay? Shipping drawings to WA form Canada is going to be a pain. That said, I don't want my client to be getting hassled at the desk.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.






RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
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David Amorim, M.Sc., P.Eng.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Check with the local building official and see what they will accept.
A lot of jurisdictions require fresh inked stamps for the protection of your stamp. I have had mine stolen twice in the past and can relate.
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
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David Amorim, M.Sc., P.Eng.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Electronic reproductions of drawings, plan sheets, specifications, studies, reports, plats, maps,
and other engineering and surveying work product that are distributed to reviewing agencies,
owners, clients, contractors, suppliers, and others must either contain the electronic seal and
digital signature as required by this chapter, or have a digital signed and electronic sealed
statement from the registrant transmitting the same which shall read: "This document(s) was
originally issued and sealed by (name), Registration Number (number) on (date)".The
statement shall also include the statement that "The original documents are stored at
(location)", or "The original documents have been destroyed and are no longer available",
whichever is applicable. Sets of plans or drawings must have this statement attached to every
sheet of the set. For specifications, reports, and studies, only the cover or introductory sheet
need include this statement.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Wet Sealing and Signing of Structural Submittals
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Most contractors want their stuff that day and my office is in the boonies.
Let's get realistic, though. Anyone can have a wet seal made to say anything. That does not guard against fraud.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
My seal is generally applied as a block on layer 0, on layer S-Anno-Seal, for example. The drawings are plotted with this and the block removed and purged. I sign and date the plot, and this drawing is scanned to a pdf.
A couple of times (in emergency situations) had the *.pdf file eMailed to me and I've applied a 'rubber stamp' pdf seal, signature and date. This has been returned, plotted and scanned with the original pdf file and 'rubber stamp' seal signature and date deleted (sent only to trusted people).
Dik
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Speaking of, I made my own WA stamp digital image this morning. Surprisingly easy, even with curved text to mess with. I have a physical stamp that I could have scanned but I find that terribly inelegant. Hopefully I'm not violating any rules by doing my own digital doctoring. Frankly, I don't know how else to procure a digital image. I'm dying to show off my handiwork but that would be too much of a compromise to my cherished anonymity.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
We know who you are and they authorities are on to you
Nice art work - did you do this within Bluebeam Revu?
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
I did make one serious error though. I put a lot of effort into a nice, background free signature a while back. It's built into all of my stamps now. Trouble is it's green pen. Not sure why I did that. Shoulda been blue for legality. You'd think that would be an easy edit but it hasn't been.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
There isn't any regulation on ordering a wet stamp or digital stamp. So in that regard, counterfeit is pretty much unstoppable. My signature is all over the place. A quick picture of my signature and a little "KootK" handiwork and you have a bonofide document. I really just kind of chuckle every time someone gets serious about protecting their stamp by only wet signing. It's the digital age, really can't prevent much of anything.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
What now? Where do you get them from? Perhaps my googling skills are getting rusty in my old age.
I've been intentionally staying out of this debate so far but now I can't resist. I actually think that counterfeit stamping is less of a problem in the digital age. At least now I can easily go online and verify that Mike hasn't been dead for twenty years. And while nothing's un-hackable, I feel that true digital signing offers a fair bit of protection if only the AHJ's would actually make use of the functionality when they receive documents (my jurisdiction is useless this way).
I'd like to know more about this. Can you save me a little research and give me a quick overview?
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
http://www.engineerseals.com/order/washingtonpe.php scroll down to find electronic jpg. I'm sure there are other options from the other major stamp providers.
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
I agree with the above though, there really isn't much fraud.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
CBSE: How would your method prevent "what you don't know is happening"?
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
In all reality, our true last line of defense is the building department. They see enough of each firms work, and presumably have a decent idea of who is working where (for the most part unless changing companies), and know the quality of work of individuals that are stamping drawings that a dramatic change in detailing methods and plan sets to the point that they may see something that looks completely off for the individual stamping the drawings. Case in point, there are two reviewers at the state level that know my stuff very well, and send me an e-mail letting me know that they are reviewing my plans. THIS IS A GREAT CHECK. I think building departments should do this more often as it really is one last check.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
It doesn't take long to stamp a set of drawings; once the TIFF is made (2 minutes) it's only 2 mouse clicks to insert it. I can't physically do it anywhere near as fast, even if I did print the drawings which I usually don't. I occasionally put a digital signature on drawings, as TehMightyEngineer does, and I'm sure it's more secure, but for the most part my work is going to people & places I know so I'm probably not as concerned as I should be.
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)
Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for the explanation.
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Acceptability of Printed Digitally Stamped Drawings (WA State in Particular)