Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
(OP)
We're currently in the construction phase of a project in Las Vegas, NV with Clark County being the supervising jurisdiction and we are the EOR. They have been the biggest nightmare of a jurisdiction that I've ever dealt with, but that's a topic for another thread. In Vegas, we are required to submit final approval shop drawings to the city for any delegated design (obviously) but even for things like concrete mixes as well.
We are running into an issue where the county is telling us that we are required to seal, with our S.E. stamp, the concrete mix submittal for the project before they will accept it and give us whatever permit is needed. Keep in mind, this is not our standard shop drawing approval stamp, this is our EOR's seal and signature that they want. As the EOR, we did not have any control or supervision of the concrete mix submittal, nor do we have the knowledge of the concrete chemistry. It seems to me that their request is in direct violation of just about every statute involved with a professional engineer's seal, and we have refused to seal it.
Are we correct here? Are they asking engineers to do something that is entirely against the law?
We are running into an issue where the county is telling us that we are required to seal, with our S.E. stamp, the concrete mix submittal for the project before they will accept it and give us whatever permit is needed. Keep in mind, this is not our standard shop drawing approval stamp, this is our EOR's seal and signature that they want. As the EOR, we did not have any control or supervision of the concrete mix submittal, nor do we have the knowledge of the concrete chemistry. It seems to me that their request is in direct violation of just about every statute involved with a professional engineer's seal, and we have refused to seal it.
Are we correct here? Are they asking engineers to do something that is entirely against the law?






RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
I have never had to use my professional seal on a shop drawing in over 35 years, only a shop stamp.
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
I never really considered it to be a delegated design item, but I see the argument as to why it could be. The EOR is relying on the expertise of a contracted (delegated) engineer to design a portion of the project. If it is to be treated as delegated design, it should be sealed by the engineer who created the mix design. But as with any delegated design item, the EOR typically does not place his/her seal on the delegated design documents. That's the whole point of delegated design, if the EOR could do it himself/herself they would. Most EOR's are probably not well versed in typical delegated design items such as precast, light gage, curtainwall, and yes, mix design. They rely on the expertise of hired guns. The seal on the delegated design documents provides the EOR with a comfort level knowing that it has been designed by an engineer who does that sort of thing everyday. However, the EOR does take responsibility for the entire project which includes delegated design items. The EOR's seal on the project documents implies that he/she is in responsible charge for all aspects of the project, delegated or not.
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
M-1. Do shop drawings have to be stamped by the principal design
professional and submitted to the building official for approval?
No. However, there are some instances where shop drawings could be
used as a part of the construction documents, therefore requiring a
professional’s stamp. For example, a truss or space frame dimensionally
shown on the construction document, specified by performance, must
be submitted to the building department bearing the stamp of a Nevada
licensee or registrant.
M-2. What component or supplemental designs are required to be
stamped or sealed by a design professional when submitted to the
building official for approval?
Components or supplemental designs such as prefabricated metal
building drawings, roof truss systems (complete systems) drawings,
post tension or prestress designs, alternates to the original submittal,
component or system substitutions which substantially change the
scope of work or code application and precast concrete building
components must be submitted to the building official for approval.
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
RE: Shop drawings/submittals and engineer's seals
I was thinking exactly the same as you.