Pipeline Problem down South
Pipeline Problem down South
(OP)
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Pipeline Problem down South
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Pipeline Problem down SouthPipeline Problem down South(OP)
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RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Please remember: we're not all guys!
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Living in Canada, there are huge debates about oil pipelines for getting Alberta tar sands bitumen to the coast and the potential for damage to the environment.
The pipeline companies all say that they will follow best practices, but then there is this one line that has now had 2 problems in the last few months. The environmentalists are going to have a field-day.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
And to your point that people "along the way" would make money, I assume you're referring to the people who would be hired to help build the pipeline, correct? Exactly how long do you think that any one person would be employed during the construction activity in their immediate area? In fact, I suspect that very few people from "along the way" would actually be hired, at least not for any well paying jobs. I would bet dollars-to-donuts that if the pipeline were ever built, that the vast majority of the people working on it would be members of a permanent crew that moved with the progression of the construction, as it would be impractical to try and train unskilled workers hired from the local area just to let them go when they moved further down the road only to have to hire and train another work crew from the next town's pool of unemployed workers. And once it's built, there will be virtually no permanent jobs created as a result, at least not "along the way".
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Pipelines (like power lines) can be a good thing, if the value of the land is low, something like much of the farm land. But if purchasing new right of way (or reworking old right of ways) the pricing model does not fit for some landowners (or renters). I recall several such things in the past. Like farming hills to allow pivot irrigation systems cross above pump jacks, or moving a power line because the farmer was willing to pay us to do so.
Then there is the unreasonable people who just don't like any intrusion on there land (even if the right of way was there before they purchased the land).
It sounds like a pain to fix, and it will take some time to fix.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Trucks are around 15-20x.
Only ocean tanker shipping is cheaper than pipelining.
Back to this happening. It appears to be a construction accident. They damaged the line that they were working on. Pretty much takes it out of being a pipeline design or operation problem.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
If risk is the only reason to not build a pipeline, or rail the oil, or even truck it, then the conclusion is simple. We do without the oil, and tell the production company to get out of the business.
The fact is if we all felt that way, then going to work is too much of a risk.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
I was thinking mostly the lease agreements, if any, and the operator itself, which, after the sunk costs, only has maintenance and the product traffic control. Given such a high disparity in cost, pipeline operators have lots of headroom for profit with only a small risk of encouraging other transport mechanisms.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
What most people find objectionable about the Dakota Access Pipeline is that it will be hauling heavy tar sand oil.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Of all the evils of oil, transport is the least of them. That pipeline is a just a facilitator. It's like the heroin/cocaine mule hauling the drug through the airport. No harm, no foul, no problem. Right?
All of this is driven by cheaper is better; and that consuming as much as possible is good. Negative externalities be damned.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Rant over.
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
For some, it's whether or not we should continue investing in petroleum at all.
For others, it's simply /where/ the pipeline goes.
So far, this conversation has been mostly whether or not a pipeline is better when compared to trains,
planesships, and automobiles. When talking about the DAP, it's a different question.RE: Pipeline Problem down South
After all we don't hear much about demolishing churches for pipelines.
But I also haven't been keeping up with all the facts.
In the case of a pipeline with no backup, would it not be prudent to keep rail, or truck loading facilities as a second transportation method?
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Bells are not easily un-rung. This is the way history played out. I display profound respect to those that work toward betterment of their lives in ways other than becoming giant thorns in the posterior of others.
In addition, I believe that when human remains are found in any construction dig, work stops so a proper investigation and disposition can be made. That much is already in place. Whether this is always followed is a function of company culture and whether the guy on the Cat is keeping a sharp eye or not.
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
From what I understand of the motive, those protesting just just don't want the heroine, as it only increases the demand for petroleum in general, which makes it that much harder to get off of it later. Many think, rightly or wrongly, that tar sand has heavy metals that drop to and get embedded in the bottom mud, so that makes it that much worse. If society gets any more used to using any more than what is used now, then it will be simply that much harder to adapt when supply comes to the end and, in the meantime, there will be no further incentive to fund developent of alternatives. From what I gather the same logic, among other arguments, is used to resist fracking.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Those you perceive to be a thorn in someone's side has the opposite view. They are the side which suffers from the thorn.
Genocide and forced relocation is a helluva thorn.
Despite forced relocation, our country /has/ promised them, through treaty, that the lands they are protesting on, which the planned pipeline would traverse, are actually owed to the tribe because of the Fort Laramie Treaty which has been trampled on, since.
I expect that simple Eminent Domain desires can't take land granted to the Dakota/Lakota Nation through treaty.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
"For people groups with no written history, "sacred ground" is largely fuzzy logic after about 3 generations, barring the discovery of artifacts."
What makes unwritten history any less valid than written history. I suppose that makes perfect logic, if your civilization can write. Passing culture down through unwritten means is arguably more meaningful and powerful than, for example, reading the Bible. I myself could far more easily believe what I heard with my own ears what my grandfather told me as opposed to what Luther or King James' scribes wrote in either version of their bibles, which I note don't agree and were made through translation and political negotiations several thousand years after those happenings.
Anyway, I think native North Americans are considerably different from most of us in their cultural beliefs concerning their environment, although I admit I have little understanding of what other native cultures may or may not believe in other parts of the world. Put in simple terms that I am capable of grasping, natives of North American tend to believe that the land owns them, rather than the reverse, which I believe is prevalent in European derived cultures. One North American tribal chief, after observing effects of gold mining, was known for his saying, "The white man is so greedy that he wraps his own snot up in a little cloth and puts it in his pocket." My personal belief is that one day, maybe sooner than we expect, all of us will find out that the Earth does indeed own us. In the meantime I believe that we should respect the ways of the historic land owners of the regions we are working around. They may just turn out to have the best idea in the long run. Just because they didn't write it down, doesn't make it any less valid.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Good to see you have a funny bone. Not exactly intended as such, but I do know there exists a multitude of, shall we say, "differences", between the various Scandinavian nationalities, having worked for a Swedish company (not mobile phones) for 10 years. Happily, these days they are usually taken in good humor.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Yes, exactly. I believe that the pollution by consumers aspect is the real objectionable part of the equation, except perhaps for the people that own land that will be affected. The pipelines are simply a convenient point for attack.
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
Pogo said it best, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-alabama-pipeline...
Dik
RE: Pipeline Problem down South
I notice there is another link on that page
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-transport...
to an article about how BC hopes to prohibit ocean tankers from entering their coastal area now. This is the direct result of the court case stalling the Gateway Pipeline overland through BC having been recently overturned, so this will be an end-around attempt to keep that project stonewalled.