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Shop Drawings

Shop Drawings

Shop Drawings

(OP)
I have had a rash of client lately sending preliminary drawings out to detailing. These are drawings that would normally be used for coordination and pricing purposes. The problem is that the drawings are not well checked and are usually refined for the final set. This is creating extra markups on the drawings and in general creating more work during the shop drawing review phase (as there tends to be more markups). It is also creating the possibility for more errors to be made (as more things need to be checked something is ultimately going to be missed). I am beginning to think I should just start rejecting the drawings rather than marking them up but I know that won't go over well with anyone.

This has happened recently back to back projects with two separate clients.

What does the engineering community do in this instance?

RE: Shop Drawings

Any drawings we send out that are not 100% complete and signed/sealed by a licensed engineer are marked "PRELIMINARY - NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION".

Some US states require this of engineers as well....no partial or partially completed drawings can be "published" without an explicit disclaimer that it is not for construction.

Construction...the term here includes shop drawing preparation.

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RE: Shop Drawings

We have always used the same disclaimer wording that @JAE mentioned above. In light of your recent experiences, we might now consider explicitly adding the supplementary wording "... or shop drawing preparation.", just to be absolutely clear about the prohibition.
Dave

Thaidavid

RE: Shop Drawings

Quote (SteelPE)

What does the engineering community do in this instance?

If my client thinks that it's important that I review shop drawings based on non-IFC drawings, then usually I do. You know... client's always being right and all that. My only recourse is really to try to price the loss into my next job with that client. I imagine that's tougher to do on the fabricator side however.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Shop Drawings

We often send out less than complete drawings to the client and/or contractor so they can see a real time snapshot of our progress. They are always marked Preliminary - Not for Construction. The preference is not to sign/seal these sets because we have no intention that anything be constructed from them since they are incomplete. The advantage of sending out less than complete drawings is that you receive client comments early on that could effect the design. Also, the contractor can plan his work according to the design as it develops instead of having to digest the project all at one time when a signed/sealed construction set is issued.

Sometimes we issue a permit set to the local building dept so they can review the drawings and issue a building permit. The building dept almost always requires a permit set to be signed/sealed. Although permit sets are close to 100%, more often than not, they are around 90% and marked For Permit Only - Not for Construction.

As for the shop drawings, we do not review the shop drawings in detail until signed/sealed construction drawings are issued. Yes, the contractor will try to submit shop drawings based on less than complete structural drawings but we simply don't have time or budget to review shop drawings over and over (we barely have time to check our own drawings). But, if/when we do get shop drawings too early we will take a quick glance at them and review them for information only (basically acknowledging them as incomplete and non-reviewable). That way people don't get bent out of shape when they see the word "Rejected" on a submittal.

RE: Shop Drawings

I'm surprised the many steel fabricators are willing to take the risk. Especially when the drawings aren't likely to be clouded where the changes are made. Sure they can start preparing bids from a prelim set of drawings, but they're just wasting detailing time working from incomplete drawings and begging for mistakes.

But then again, their customer (the contractor) is also always right...

RE: Shop Drawings

Also use the note, "PRELIMINARY-NOT TO BE USED FOR CONSTRUCTION". My drawing notes include that the shop drawings have to be signed and dated by the Contractor, certifying that... and have a 'rubber stamp' that I add to the shop drawings requiring this review.

If the owner is taking it upon himself to do issue the shop drawings, in some jurisdictions he becomes the Constructor and is liable for safety, etc.

Dik

RE: Shop Drawings

Our shop drawing fee includes 2 reviews per set of shops - initial and backcheck. So if they send crap drawings twice, they pay for subsequent reviews.

When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty but when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller

RE: Shop Drawings

manstrom, What if the majority of the comments on the first round were due to coordination issues with arch and str.? This is fairly common especially in regards to slab edges and exact opening dimensions in my practice. The common practice is for the architect to provide us with their model/background a week before the submission, however they don't stop working in that week so there will inevitably be some differences.

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