Snarky Architect
Snarky Architect
(OP)
I have an odd situation here so bear with me.
I am working on a project for a steel fabricator. The project was awarded by a GC to the steel fabricator. The GC also hired an architect who works directly for the GC. I went to a meeting the other day that was attended by the GC, Architect, Fabricator and I. During the meeting the architect brought up a question about something that he though was questionable on my drawings. I explained to him the design approach to which we rebuffed “Glad it’s not my stamp”. I didn’t think much of it at the meeting as my client, the steel fabricator, and I have worked together for 17 years and he knows why and how I operate.
However, looking back I am thinking the comment was quite rude and unprofessional. The situation is quite complicated. The GC is someone who I have been trying to obtain as a client (the fabricator knows this and doesn’t care) and the architect is someone who often works for the GC. This isn’t the first time I have had an issue with this architect and I am thinking he is trying to push the GC away from me and towards he preferred engineers.
There is another situation similar situation on a different project where I am working directly for the architect at the request of the GC and the architect "hung me out to dry" on a sticky situation in front of the GC and the end user.
I almost feel like I should confront the architect about this but I am beginning to think working with this client, the GC, isn't going to be worth the aggravation as they has used this architect for quite a long time. What would others do in this instance?
I am working on a project for a steel fabricator. The project was awarded by a GC to the steel fabricator. The GC also hired an architect who works directly for the GC. I went to a meeting the other day that was attended by the GC, Architect, Fabricator and I. During the meeting the architect brought up a question about something that he though was questionable on my drawings. I explained to him the design approach to which we rebuffed “Glad it’s not my stamp”. I didn’t think much of it at the meeting as my client, the steel fabricator, and I have worked together for 17 years and he knows why and how I operate.
However, looking back I am thinking the comment was quite rude and unprofessional. The situation is quite complicated. The GC is someone who I have been trying to obtain as a client (the fabricator knows this and doesn’t care) and the architect is someone who often works for the GC. This isn’t the first time I have had an issue with this architect and I am thinking he is trying to push the GC away from me and towards he preferred engineers.
There is another situation similar situation on a different project where I am working directly for the architect at the request of the GC and the architect "hung me out to dry" on a sticky situation in front of the GC and the end user.
I almost feel like I should confront the architect about this but I am beginning to think working with this client, the GC, isn't going to be worth the aggravation as they has used this architect for quite a long time. What would others do in this instance?





RE: Snarky Architect
Good luck.
Please remember: we're not all guys!
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
consider meeting with GC, the client you desire, and who apparently is willing to engage you as you have been on 2 projects now. 'dear GC, after the comments in the meeting, i just want to make sure you're happy and getting your money's worth. No, i don't worry about snarky architects as i'm used to it in that it comes with the territory and seems to be a necessary attribute to the profession. But in my 17 years experience this is what i see and what i can do / will do for you......"
i probably would not discuss with sir snarkiness as i doubt that he'll suddenly wake up and say, you know something, you're right! i've been a $%^ #$%%& ^&%&^%7 (^*&^87 ^&$&%$ all along!
RE: Snarky Architect
Call him out. You'll likely earn some respect from the GC and others!
RE: Snarky Architect
The GC may have his own reasons for continuing to use someone that does this. Nevertheless, the GC continues to keep hiring the both of you. That speaks louder than anything else.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
Today's a good day: I learned a new term I can use in meetings.
Thanks Tick, you're the Tabasco in my Gumbo.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
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RE: Snarky Architect
"Well, we sure aren't using your stamp!"
RE: Snarky Architect
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Snarky Architect
When comments are made, especially those that rub you the wrong way, I believe they should be addressed in the same forum in which they were made. For example, if the architect had called you on the phone and made a similar comment then I would have taken it up with him or her in a one-on-one setting. But if he or she made had called you out in front of others, then I would have immediately inquired further what their basis was for making such a comment. If you do not defend yourself on the spot, then others may walk away from that meeting doubting your design based on the unfavorable comments made.
RE: Snarky Architect
Seems like the matter could be brought before the state board if this is a common practice of his.
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Snarky Architect
I also won't call what he did berating. I don't know what he did when I was "hung out to dry", but I guess it was my own fault.
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
ASCE code of ethics Canon 5, Part G, except this applies to civil engineers not snarkitects
http://www.asce.org/uploadedFiles/About_ASCE/Ethic...
I would first look at this constructively, evaluate your design process and make sure it meets standards of care and not just because this is the way you have done it for 17 years. You owe that to your client. Is it possible that you have been doing it wrong for all this time? Otherwise, I would respectfully agree to disagree with him during these public comments. Or, if you would rather just poke the bear, Perhaps you could start giving him a little un-solicited friendly advice on the plans he stamps
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Snarky Architect
I would not confront the architect. I think this is the sort of thing they are taught. The best way to deal with it is to either snip back in good nature or ignore. As long as you don't cross a line or make some comment more insulting than the architect they shouldn't get offended. And if you play your cards right maybe the GC will join the fun and poke fun as well.... or someone will leave crying it is a delicate game.
RE: Snarky Architect
I'm starting to think trying to obtain the GC as my client is unrealistic and not worth the effort. This is because no matter how much I make an effort the GC doesn't seem to notice or care and the projects I am getting from him seem to reflect this.
RE: Snarky Architect
I think the most professional, while still putting him on the spot, would have been...in a non snarky, calmly worded, response:
"Can you help us (don't say -me-) understand where and why the design should be different (...or...understand the issues with this design, ...or...understand what you would have done differently, etc...)?"
Most of the time, they can't answer... they are just trying to 'show face' to the customer.
If he does answer...well then...your response is, 'Thank you for your input, I'll investigate it"...and follow up with the GC why you didn't, or did, take his advice.
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RE: Snarky Architect
"...bursting with the belated eloquence of the inarticulate."
I always try to rise above these behaviors in others. It only makes the other party look worse.
xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
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RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Snarky Architect
I doubt that a significant portion of engineers even believe that.
RE: Snarky Architect
Situation: Schematic design meeting for a sizable commercial building project. A new addition is throwing a snow shadow onto an existing building. After I give my overview of the framing type and mention that reinforcement of the existing roof is required due to this additional snow load the architect turns to the client and says "Don't worry, no reinforcement is required, I guarantee it". The entire time he's speaking he's giving me the holier than thou look.
So when he finishes his guarantee my response is "How about we get together and compare design calculations to see where I went wrong in checking the existing roof?". The table chuckled, he went a touch red.
RE: Snarky Architect
if the guy has no heavy proof against your dealings, you should have sacked him, otherwise you are actually giving his points a weight.
it's all about arguments, and if your arguments are strong enough, you should defend them. that does not mean you need to be rude in return, but you can be firm and polite at the same time.
RE: Snarky Architect
I know others would argue that you got "snarky" there, but I applaud you. Sometimes it's necessary, that Architect isn't likely to undermine your authority in your field of expertise again. Sometimes being too polite opens up the door for dealing with more of these types of comments in the future. I think what you said was the right balance of stating your credentials against his and showing he's out of his depth.
It does make me wonder about motivation. Is it really because he thinks he's superior? Or does he think the client believes the client thinks reinforcing is more money and that will make the client back out?
If you have the time, I would call/ask to meet and ask him his motivation for that line. If you get the feeling he's just a jerk, then write it off. If he says, "I was worried that the client would think it's too much money." You have an opportunity to tell him on future collaborations any concerns can be discussed together before the meeting if possible. I'm sure you both want the project to happen. If this is the case, it will bolster your relationship.
After writing this, I realize I wrote it all to jayrod12, but it's really general advice to anyone. I've been in a role involving a significant amount of sales for the last 4 years, and find that when two parties understand each others motivations, the relationship grows exponentially as does the ability to present in a manner that builds each other up.
RE: Snarky Architect
The big part is don't let in bother you. Easier said than done.
RE: Snarky Architect
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Snarky Architect
I usually sit in the corner and mind my own business unless asked about structural items. I figure this is the best approach to meetings especially when I am with my fabricator clients (they love to talk). I usually shove my foot in my mouth one way or another anyway.
RE: Snarky Architect
RE: Snarky Architect