how to move a mill
how to move a mill
(OP)
So my son's FIRST Robotics team acquired a mill from a school in the district that was no longer using it(see photo). Now that we have it in the right building, any suggestions on how to get it off the pallet? One of the students suggested FIRE! so I'm looking for other solutions.
Z
Z





RE: how to move a mill
What appears to be a 'pan' to catch chips, is that easily removed? If so, remove it and then cut the sides off the pallet so that only the center part under the mill remains. Then get a couple of automotive floor jacks and a couple of 4x4's placed vertically under the horizontal bed (but only if it's attached solid to the mill) and on to the jacks. You only need to move it an inch or less to get the pallet out. Is this where you want it once it's off the pallet? If so you should be able to make it work. If the horizontal bed can support the weight of the mill then perhaps some more 4x4's and make an inverted 'U' frame from under the head down to the floor jacks (in that case you wouldn't need to worry about removing the 'chip pan'). But depending on the weight of the mill you might need to use an 'I-beam' for the horizontal part of the inverted 'U'.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: how to move a mill
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: how to move a mill
Good idea on cutting the pallet that we don't need out of the way. That may open up some possibilities. I'll have access to the mill again next Thursday.
Z
RE: how to move a mill
Also the cheapest solution, counting medical bills.
That machine is heavy, and the CG is way up high, and heavy parts can fall off.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: how to move a mill
How about a couple of kilos of C4, strategically placed. (Don't laugh, I have seen explosives used before in an underground mine, when the miners were trying to place an ore crusher into final position).
Do you have access to a fork-lift at this facility?
Other than that I agree with Mike, get a professional industrial mover.
RE: how to move a mill
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: how to move a mill
here is a move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqq-ZxY8MqI
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
Google "toe jack"
This is like a bottle jack, but lifts a lip at ground level.
You also Need a stack of shim steel, say down to 1 mm
Cut the pallet away around the mill base
Jack up one side, cut more of the pallet away
Shim up to support the mill
Repeat on the other three sides until mill supported on four stacks of shim
Remove rest of pallet
Jack up each side in turn, removing some shim each time (to keep mill as vertical as possible)
You could remove all shims, or just leave enough to to keep mill vertical
Bolt down and grout around shims
Please remember to brace mill (or tie to wall) to prevent it falling over
RE: how to move a mill
1) use two rounds as rollers (see the beginning of the video posted by byrdj) to take the base a couple of inches out of the front of the pallet
2) put, in front of the pallet a stack of chipboard panels half an inch thick, with a total height half an inch less than the pallet
3) using rounds with a diameter half an inch bigger than the former two (or a little less than that), get the base onto the stack
4) replace the two bigger rounds with the smaller ones (this is the most dangerous part, be very careful, use intermediate size rounds to be safer)
5) now remove the pallet
6) in place of the pallet put a second stack of chipboard panels one thickness lower than the other one
7) repeat all the operations above to get the machine half an inch lower and continue till you can finally get to the floor.
I guess that the egyptians could have used such a procedure, but of course nowadays a lift would do that in a faster and safer way. Note however that, to move the machine to a different location on the same floor, you'll still need the rounds under the base as in the video.
prex
http://www.xcalcs.com : Online engineering calculations
http://www.megamag.it : Magnetic brakes and launchers for fun rides
http://www.levitans.com : Air bearing pads
RE: how to move a mill
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: how to move a mill
It's common practice to loop straps under the head and lift straight up from there. Center of mass is in a friendly point, then. For this you'd need a forklift or a good attach point and a suitable hoist. Suitable frames can be built adjacent, with a spanning beam to get by, but that requires careful planning. We move our knee mills around with straps held under a fork lift. We have a pretty stout fork lift though. And the clearance height.
If you can't find a fork lift with appropriate lifting capacity, the thing can be taken apart. I don't have experience with Millrite makes specifically, but the bolt attachment points should be pretty obvious. None of the subassemblies are light enough to lift without mechanical assistance, still. But for lighter lifting equipment, it might help.
You would just need to tram it in once you put it back together. Something you'd want to do even if you didn't take it apart, anyways.
Be very careful if you're going to lift from the bottom. The top/head is very heavy. Not a good idea to tilt it much at all. Unless you tie it off to something sturdy, above, to prevent overtipping.
RE: how to move a mill
But if the school isn't in a position to "afford" a rigger, how much of a position are they going to be in to afford a lawsuit when someone crushes a hand/foot?
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: how to move a mill
Make sure the heavy shit won't fall.
Make sure the top heavy thing isn't going to tilt over.
All you're doing is taking the weight off the pallet so you can yank it out, then lowering the mill back down. It's not like they're moving it to a 3rd story lab.
If a rigger wants to donate his time - all the better. I just know how hard-up for cash a school is, and that sometimes you have to do what you have to do to get kids the best tools for their education. People involved with FIRST Robotics teams are especially aware of this. I understand a forklift may not be available - alternatives are mentioned. Our local high school has a fork lift the metal shop teacher maintains. They use it because their metal shop guys make some pretty heavy stuff that they have to move around from time to time. They also have some machines that they need to move. The high school I went to was just down the street from a woodworking shop that had a hefty forklift where I'm sure they'd be more than willing to drive down the street and lend a hand.
Actually USING that machine is potentially much more dangerous than moving it. But no one here has batted an eye at that, yet.
Why are a few engineers so afraid to solve the problem themselves, and so quick to sub the work out? Stop focusing on potential failures and find potential solutions. :)
Tangent:
OP - My son just started 4th grade, which puts him in range of the LEGO teams, but I've been thinking more about 7th grade when he's of age to start the competition stage. The closest FIRST Team is prohibitively far away. Do you have any experience or advise in STARTING a team? My son's school has a pretty respectable STEM education separate from their basic SCIENCE classes that is pretty neat. I think if I got to know the STEM teacher we may be able to rally enough kids to participate and start
begging forsoliciting donations from the community to support them. My son is a nut for science/STEM topics and for semi-selfish reasons (if we're going to share a hobby, it may as well be fun for both of us!) I've also been encouraging it heavily.RE: how to move a mill
Share this idea with the student who wanted to use fire. He will like it.
I saw this method used to lower the base of a walking dragline during construction. It had to come down about four feet. Took a couple of days with a couple of men on duty monitoring the progress and turning the fans on as needed.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
Over the years we have moved a fair few machines in, out and around my factory and have purchased skates and wheeled crowbars to help. An a-frame gantry and chain hoist would seem to be what's required here. Old machines normally have threaded holes for lifting eyes (though I admit we usually had to find out the thread and order lifting eyes (now where have I put my 15/16ths Whitworth lifting eyes?)) It can take time but long crowbars and a load of shims (say 5mm thick steel offcuts) have sufficed. Oh and a lot of patience.
Actually we find moving our new Haas CNC's a pain because they don't use lifting eyes and are horrible to lift with a forklift.
That said whenever we do use riggers they make it look Sooooooo easy. Their equipment is just much nicer than ours and that's what they do all day long. They have always proved very cost effective from a business point of view, but for an educational establishment - well you could get a quote and sweet talk the PTA.
(I remember being amazed watching one rigger delivering a large manual lathe to us (weight >3 tonnes - he reached it through our delivery doors using the crane on his lorry, a distance over 10 meters, and positioned it using a remote control. He adjusted it +/- 2mm at that reach. I asked him about it and he said he'd had the lorry built to his specification and that the accuracy was down to the hydraulic "spools" he had specified. I know the square root of 2% of f*** all about hydraulics but I'm guessing this is something to do with the valves controlling the hydraulic flow. Either way it was REALLY impressive)
And I have to say I love the ice idea. it's so (and you'll have to forgive me for this) cool!
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams
RE: how to move a mill
You get them craned off the truck onto wooden rail sleepers and proceed from there.
No need for rollers, just sleepers and a tirfor rope winch if it has to be moved inside.
Piece of Pxxs.
If it is in school, they will learn so much from watching a useless old fxxxt like me do it, just like I learnt.
Oh! Just like I learnt, you have a stack of shims at each corner, and in the center of each long side. So you keep shimming to get each shim pack tight. By it does not work like that.... You always have one shim pack slack...... Eventually, when your machine is tottering skywards on ever rising shim packs, you are rescued by the people who really know what they are doing, one always has to be slack. Why did the old guys like to make 3 legged stools, rather than four legged?
Geometry. You can never get a four legged chair level if it were not for flexibility.
Oh yes, one day I was appointed service manager.
I walked into my office, and on my desk was a shim pack, with a note attached "the beer is on us."
RE: how to move a mill
How did the pallet get off the truck, if a truck was used? How did the machine get onto the pallet? Presumably, not sending that equipment home until it had the machine in more or less the right place would have been the best course of action.
There are many alternatives to the right way. They can succeed, or fail. The trouble is, failure is potentially very costly indeed. Backwoods millwrighting is an art, and professional millwrighting is a trade. Both require experience. The latter comes generally with access to the right equipment.
Next time, have it shipped on a couple loose 4x4s instead of a pallet. That gives you more options. Destroying a pallet selectively while it bears the weight of a heavy piece of equipment is harder to do safely than it may seem at first blush.
RE: how to move a mill
I agree that safety is a concern once we start operating the mill. Luckily a few of our mentors are well trained operators. Even a couple of the trained students are pretty impressive!
Jneiman - I'll start another thread on starting a FIRST group.
RE: how to move a mill
Not a forklift? Everyone seems to assume that you don't have a forklift and can't get one there, but I can't figure out how you got the pallet with a Bridgeport on it to that spot WITHOUT a forklift. I second JNeiman's suggestion as the simplest by far.
STF
RE: how to move a mill
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
As far as moving the machine, I would want to be on site and see what assets were available before even thinking about a method.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
There are four mounting holes in the base.
Purchase a length of 5/8" or 3/4" AllThread or ReadyRod and four nuts.
Stabilize the machine.
Cut away the pallet board under the left front corner of the mill.
Insert a length of AllThread into the hole and thread through a nut on the underside.
Turn the rod with a pipe wrench or similar tool until it takes some weight.
Repeat for the other three corners.
Remove the pallet.
Turn the rods to lower the mill.
Try to rig something to stabilize the mill during this operation.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: how to move a mill
You may want to tac weld a piece of scrap to each nut so that it cannot turn freely.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
Bill - our methods aren't far apart.
RE: how to move a mill
Our methods are identical, but you said it first.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
Lower the table as low as it will go.
Remove the "knobs" that will hang you up and catch on things.
I like the all-thread idea to get rid of the pallet
Use 1.5 to 2 inch steel rod as rollers, lower down onto the rollers.
This is where the husky high school kids come in handy.
Slowly push, and replenish the steel rods.
Stop often and check alignment and for obstacles.
RE: how to move a mill
http://www.abceqrental.com/products.php?id=527&...
RE: how to move a mill
2) Lifting straps
3) The first XV, or football team or whatever group of overly muscled athletes you can find.
Point out where they can lift it, promise them bear if they get it off the pallet.
Alternatively, UHMWPE tape, long prybars, Johnson bar, blocks of wood for levers... Trimming down the pallet as John suggests may make this simpler.
Definitely pay attention to not putting parts of anyones anatomy under the heavy load. We move a lot of big stages on several hundred pound blocks of granite quite frequently using leavers, rollers, pry bars... but the number one rule is to not put your digits etc. under the granite. Number 2 rule is to make sure nothing can unintentionally slide.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
Engine hoists cost only a couple of hundred bucks. They lift a couple of tons. You can sell them afterwards on Craig's list. It has been observed above that rigging is not a job for amateurs. I am getting warnings about this, here. Either bring in professionals, or get trained.
--
JHG
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: how to move a mill
Regards,
Mike
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
gbangs
TC 8.3.3
NX 8.5.3.3 MP11
RE: how to move a mill
Definitely a good comment.
They just might surprise you!
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: how to move a mill
AceEngineer
RE: how to move a mill
Bear are exceedingly strong and intelligent, and able to be trained to perform a variety of tasks and tricks.
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: how to move a mill
Four bears may be able to handle it at 450 to 500 lbs. each. Get the larger, mature bears, not the cubs.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
I have a job coming up that could sure use a few of them....
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: how to move a mill
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: how to move a mill
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: how to move a mill
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
With all of this awesome free advise, what have you done, or plan on doing?
RE: how to move a mill
I expect well finish the move in Oct. design and fab starts in Jan so we'll definitely need to have it done before then.
Z
RE: how to move a mill
RE: how to move a mill
The transfer switch was about 48 inches high. It was delivered on a pallet.
The "Not Quite Ready For Prime Time" crew pushed the pallet against the wall and moved the transfer switch to the back of the pallet against the wall.
Then they connected the switch and went away leaving the switch still sitting on the pallet.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
RE: how to move a mill
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: how to move a mill
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: how to move a mill
I couldn't help but think of this thread also...read to the bottom of the article and you will see that they used ice to get the beams out from under the house and allow the house to settle in its new location!
RE: how to move a mill
More Amish power equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpiYoYbbX74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7dk8gVH8A
RE: how to move a mill
Thanks for all the advice!
Z
RE: how to move a mill
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com