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Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

(OP)
Gentlemen,
Our welding engineer is trying to increase the PWHT soaking time on production welds by 1.8 because some Inspector´s request.
Now a 3in. weld shall be PWHT at 1100 °F for 2.25 x 1.8 = 4.05 hrs instead of 2.25 hrs. per UCS-56-1.
From what I can read on the book and this forum that 80% of aggregate times at temperature is for test procedure qualification and not for production welds.

Any comment will be welcome.

Best regards,

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

PWHT time and temperature apply equally for PQR qualification and production welding. With respect to the 80% aggregate times at temperature reference from ASME IX, QW 407.2, most test coupons receive a PWHT in accordance with ASME Section VIII, Division I UCS-56 to insure mechanical properties are acceptable for destructive testing.

With the belief that you were referencing ASME Section VIII, Division I, Table UCS-56-1 (P 1 materials), there is nothing to prohibit additional soak time. You didn't mention the welding process, but in general, a change in the post weld heat treatment temperature and time range (ASME IX, QW 407.2) is a supplemental essential variable that would require the WPS be re-qualified to this new soak time if impact testing is required.

Is it possible your Welding Engineer is looking to perform the PWHT at a lower temperature for a longer time?



Excerpt from ASME Section VIII, Division I, UCD 56 (b)

(b) Except where prohibited in Tables UCS-56-1
through UCS-56-11, holding temperatures and/or holding
times in excess of the minimum values given in Tables
UCS-56-1 through UCS-56-11 may be used. Intermediate
postweld heat treatments need not conform to the requirements
of Tables UCS-56-1 through UCS-56-11. The
holding time at temperature as specified in Tables
UCS-56-1 through UCS-56-11 need not be continuous. It
may be an accumulation of time of multiple postweld heat
treatment cycles.

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

Section IX,
My interpretation of OP is it is same temp but extended soak time.

Fernandiux,
Where is the inspector getting the 1.8 figure from ?
What was time and temperature of your PQR coupon ?
Cheers,
DD

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

(OP)
Thank you Gentlemen,
The extended soaking time is coming from the Inspector´s interpretation of QW 407.2, the test coupon for PQR was 1 ½” thickness and PWHT at 1260 °F for 2.5 hours. No impact test is required and the welding process is SAW.

Regards,

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

If there is no impact testing required, QW-407.2 does not apply as mentioned above. See also QW-254

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

(OP)
From what I read on your posts, the welding engineer shouldn't extend soaking time on Production welds, Time and Temperature shall comply with ASME section VIII UCS 56-1 and PQR.

Any though?

Best regards,



RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

Something doesn't seem to add up. Why would the PQR be heat treated at 1260F if it were P1 material (P1 = 1100F minimum)? Also, I find it unlikely that a 3" thick production weld of P1 material doesn't require impact testing. MDMT of 3" thick Curve D material is around 10F (SA-516-70, normalized). It would be nice to have some additional information.

With all of that being said, the bottom line is that QW-407.2 does not apply if production impact testing is not required.

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

Sounds like a Sect IX misinterpretation. IX has nothing to do with the PWHT requirements of production welds. You are required to use the Design Code rules, typically Sect I or VIII. Excess 'soak time' is excess -- a waste of time and money. [might want to ask your Welding Engineer if the Inspector is planning to pay for the excess work]. Any ASME minimum soak time is ALREADY conservative, and somewhat excessive [by design]. Adding to that is silly.

RE: Soaking time of production welds according to QW 407.2

The Section IX requirement applies to the maximum time at temperature, not the minimum time at temperature as required by ASME VIII for production welds when impact testing is required.

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