anyone done lift plans?
anyone done lift plans?
(OP)
I've been asked to do this. Can someone give sample drawings or a guide how to do this.
Before I turn this down, I want to make sure I really can't do this.
Before I turn this down, I want to make sure I really can't do this.






RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: anyone done lift plans?
Otherwise, take TME's advice.
www.SlideRuleEra.net
www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: anyone done lift plans?
When you add this all up, combine it with a low redundancy situation, and add to that the consequences of failure and the likelihood of litigation should it go south, then you can see why I wouldn't attempt this in your shoes.
All that said, this is definitely just a situation of getting experience with it assuming you're a competent structural engineer. Perhaps you can hire an outside consultant to do the design for you where you review and approve it? If you can get that experience then it's definitely not the most complicated structural engineering task out there and quite rewarding.
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?
or, the opposite
Say, a Contractor has a modest size and model crawler crane with specific capabilities and limitations. How to make a plan for that specific machine to make a heavy lift?
I'm addressing the latter. If that is not the case, disregard my previous post.
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RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
what are the sensible questions I should ask the client?
my boss wants me to come up with questions.
do you use any software specific for rigging?
we are bidding for this project so I need to come up with estimated hours.
how many hours it takes to do the lifting plan drawing of this site (attached)?
Do I need just 1 drawing for this?
It's just a 30" pipe with a valve and a few small equipments.
My main objective now is to come up with "sensible" estimated hours to do the lifting plan drawing of this site.
I definitely need the help of experienced rigging planner later if we get the project.
thanks,
RE: anyone done lift plans?
- Are you to provide just a rigging arrangement drawing, with loads and the rigging called out? Or will they require you to specify the equipment, crane/radius/configuration/ground bearing pressure/mats etc?
- Does the object you are lifting have lifting points, or will you have to design some? (If it is just a pipe you could probably just basket or choker hitch around it and avoid designing any).
- Will a weight and CG be provided or will you need to calculate this?
- Are there any obstructions for which you need to design specific rigging or equipment arrangements/sequence to avoid?
- What equipment do they have to perform the lift?
- What deliverables are they expecting? Rigging drawing, crane arrangement drawing, calcs?
As far as software, I only use RISA or SACS (an offshore structural analysis software) in order to determine COG/weights/ and to check the structure for lifting forces.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
www.SlideRuleEra.net
www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: anyone done lift plans?
This does look on the simple side so definitely a good place to start, especially with your note to bring someone else on for this project to get the details ironed out.
- It appears the pipe is 45°s from the ground up to the valve so if you pick adjacent to the valve you should have a CG below the pick points and this will keep it from spinning if you go with a basket and choker hitch.
- If possible, design this to be lifted with an excavator that the contractor has on hand. Cranes are expensive, excavators are not.
- You will want to verify that the pipe has sufficient strength for this. Offhand I suspect it will but depending on your valve weight and wall thickness some lifting arrangements might deform the pipe.
- If you draw this up in Autocad (or similar) you can get the CG location from a LISP routine or a MASSPROP command.
- Establishing the scope early and paying careful attention to the verbage used on the drawings will be key to ensure you're not taking liability that should be borne by the contractor. Means and methods and all that good stuff.
- Draw your lift out at key stages to ensure you have anticipated all the steps in your calculations and so that the contractor lifts as you intended or can raise issues if they see a problem with it during their review.
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: anyone done lift plans?
this looks like they have built-in cranes, radius reqt, etc...
http://www.kranxpert.com/
http://www.3dliftplan.com/Info/InfoHome.aspx
RE: anyone done lift plans?
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: anyone done lift plans?
Are there blocks available in autocad for that? We currently don't have this.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
I would question the client, their experience and capabilities, and their motives when they need to hire out the lift planing for this kind of job. Given a total lack of experience on this type of job, are they looking to you to be their insurer of last resort; and when something goes wrong you’ll be hung out to dry, all for a few thousand dollars of fees, on a project where your own company seems totally lacking in experience also. Your boss doesn’t know, so he assigns the job to you, and then offers you absolutely no guidance. Then your solution is to buy a $5000 computer program to do a $3000 job. While no lifting job is insignificant when people could be hurt and equipment could be damaged if things were done wrong, this looks like a pretty typical maintenance job (a valve replacement) for an experienced pipeline contractor. As important as anything might be some thought about the idea that you kinda need two adjacent temp. work stations, one for positioning and final prep. of the new valve pipe section when delivered, and a second to set the old valve section down on so you are not wasting a bunch of time maneuvering the two, while the line is shut down. Is the lifting to be done from within or outside the fence? Site soil conditions?
We should all aspire to grow and learn in our profession and capabilities, and reach for new challenges. Some learning can most certainly be done, today, by questions and participation on an engineering forum. You quickly learn which guys/gals on the forum have the experience and shot straight, and which ones you should probably take with a grain of salt. Some learning is better done with eye-to-eye mentoring and experience transfer, and it doesn’t sound like you are going to get that from your boss. So, if he wants to get into that business, he should find you some help to even put this bid together, so you all gain the experience without getting hurt, financially or otherwise.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
Off the top of my head you want:
Rigging arrangement drawing:
- Show in detail the rigging arrangement - slings (length and diameter) ,shackles (brand and capacity), spreader bar (lengths and capacity), lifting attachment points, blocks etc. Also you should call out if there is any basket or choker hitches
- The drawing should show the center of gravity referenced from a point that is easy to pull tape from
- Specs on sling type (ie X.X.I.P), and whether sling lengths may be substituted (ie I have a 20' sling but you called out a 30' sling)
- Some firms place a chart showing capacity of slings, and utilized capacity on their rigging chart. Don't forget about your D/d reduction if you are choking or basket hitch around anything.
- Also, a minimum of 5.0 FOS for the ultimate breaking strength should be used in rigging.
Crane/Equipment Arrangement Drawing.
- Layout/plan view showing location of crane/cranes, radius, any crane mats necessary, steps (such as tracking forward or rotating 90 deg etc)
- Identify any potential clashes, you need to also make sure you have enough height to lift what you want with the rigging you specified.
- Chart that shows capacity of crane, total lifted load (rigging, weight of item etc), crane radius, crane configuration (ie 250' boom, 300 ton counterweight, luffing, etc), track pressures if relevant, and crane deductions (weight of wire rope, block, etc)
Lift aid drawings
- If you have to design padeyes or trunnions or something, a structural drawing showing all the necessary componenets (dimensions, plate type/thickness, capacity, BTH identification plate)
I know I am missing something, but this should give you a template of what you should deliver to the client.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
I guess my boss wants to add this type of work to projects we can do.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
30" Flanged, Cast Steel Gate Valve, ASTM Class 300 (Rated about 700 psi at ambient temperature) = 9000 lb.
30" Steel Pipe, Schedule 80 (0.5" wall thickness) = 158 lb/ft (without flanges)
Say the lift is the flanged valve plus a 5', or so, of flanged pipe on each side (to span over the concrete valve supports shown on the drawing).
Total Weight: About 11,000 lb. (9000 lb. + 1000 lb. + 1000 lb.).... not the kind of lift that is usually planned in detail, by an engineering firm, for a qualified heavy construction contractor.
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www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?
Some of the big boys in the construction industry have their own guidelines and lift plan requirements. One of these requirements is always that any subs on the job follow those guidelines. It sounds a bit like your client may be a subcontractor who is being asked to provide more information to the general than they are used to. Before bidding anything on this job find out if your client, and/or the general contractor if your client is a sub, have any specific requirements for lift plans. For example, Andriver touched on outrigger/crane track pressure, which is usually a client, owner or site specific requirement. Some companies will also require you to reduce the crane capacity due to wind loads even when the allowable wind speed stated on the plans is less than or equal to the wind speed allowed during lifts by the crane manufacturer. And I'm sure there are other requirements from other companies that I have not dealt with.
RE: anyone done lift plans?
RE: anyone done lift plans?