Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
(OP)
Probably nothing "really" new here but talk of tall wood framed buildings has been....er....building up recently.
Here's a short article on it: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-16/...
Seems like for tall buildings they'd have to solve the long-term wood creep issue.
Here's a short article on it: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-16/...
Seems like for tall buildings they'd have to solve the long-term wood creep issue.
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RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Simplistically I'd think durability related issues given the likely longevity would be one of the biggest concerns along with fire risks as briefly mentioned in the article..
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Would beavers be a problem?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
No fair, no fair.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Work fine, last long time.
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
and stick-building with graded matchsticks cut from trees that are farmed on a very short cycle
and harvested before they have any 'clear' content.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
I expected a beaver reference.
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Here's how it works.
- Plant trees at 4 corners of proposed building location
- Wait for trees to grow and gain structural value (do other tasks to keep busy throughout the waiting time)
- Create deck-like platform bridging the trees near the top
- Fill the platform with pot soil
- Plant trees in the 4 corners of that platform
- Repeat starting at step #2
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
... PLUS ...
...PLUS ...
All of the above and especially cranky's statement... I see engineering and life-safety protests.
Even if such structure would get approval, the general public DOES, (on occasion) have reasonable common sense, coupled with a built-in, intellectually reasonable fear factor.
(stay with me - I'll come back)
Occupancy related: There is an approximate 100-unit condominium complex in my city of residence, targeted for the upper-middle class resident, built in the lower-middle class neighborhood, overlooking a large convenience-store-gas station with a deserted gas-station across the street. Grand-opening over ten years ago, i believe about a half-dozen units have been occupied. Could this be termed situational or circumstantial occupancy - or lack thereof? It's been in the news that the developer is not financially well-pleased.
(wrapping up)
Likewise, all things considered, if the wood skyscraper were to get built, how many people would be willing to occupy it. Would any of us? Currently... Not I!!! It would be interesting... after my predicted "failure to financially-feasibly-occupy", would another like-structure be built?
Answer: Because, unlike aircraft, in typical structural engineering, our general goal is to prevent the building from flying.
Mint, how tall is that structure? Does it compare to the OP?
I don't understand. I missed something. Please elaborate.
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
If you really want a large tree house, you might think about the banyan tree.
Actually I have seen some older and nice wood structure and brick covered buildings of several stories tall. By now it has steel added, with epoxy on the bricks to extend it's life. But none the less, wood is a viable building material. But beyond about four stories, I would question the value of using wood.
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
I can see Simpson Strong-Tie (cautiously) interested in this prospect... with waivers...
Even the famous Sequoiadendron giganteum (Giant Seqouia) has a reported record height of only 311'. The architect of THAT structure CREATED the limited design values of wood.
Simply dividing steel MOE and Fb by the best manufactured wood values, you'll be in the neighborhood of 14-19:1. Until we accomplish Frank Wrights mile-high-scraper, in steel, which would have a ratio of roughly 17:1 over the worlds highest "natural" wood structure, we should understand that no wood structure should even be safely considered to exceed 1/14 - 1/19 that of the completed tallest steel structure.
Wood is simply NOT intended to go that high!
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
http://www.livescience.com/14667-tall-trees-grow.h...
Above link suggests its a biological limit, not primarily structural.
So, as much as I'm all for giving the Almighty the appropriate recognition for coming up with the rules we play by, a living tree V wooden building are playing a different game and hence different rules apply.
Plus what manufactured wood values are you using? The aircraft I mentioned used a balsa core between plywood 'skins' - I don't know values off the top of my head etc. but for some applications may be higher than for OSB style materials even in shapes made to optimize I.
Obviously cost effectiveness may be an issue driven by various factors but fundamentally I wonder what could be achieved.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Best I can determine from various web sources 33 meters over the base of the masonry foundation.
The exterior appearance is 5 stories, but the inside is actually 7.
Originally the main columns were single tree trunks, however various repair and renovation projects over the past 400 or so years have resulted in some splices.
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
I would hope that fire safety should have to be installed during the framing construction, and not just at the end.
Put one floor up, install fire sprinklers, put next floor up, ...
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
Therefore, without the natural bio/chem process, the wood "would" be even LESS effective.
There IS fire-resistant treated wood. I believe the cost is higher. And what about the potential corrosion of fasteners as a result from resistive treatment?
Although fire is an apparent increasing focus in this post, agreeing it must be addressed, considering the remote possibility of its occurrence, referring back to the OP, I consider JAE's thought of long-term creep, in addition to corrosion of fasteners a more necessary concern that is CERTAIN to occur. I see this OP building requiring an overwhelming amount of steel holdowns, tension ties, straps, tie-rods, etc...
Despite the life-safety classification of building type of the structure, structurally speaking, can a structure technically be considered a wood structure if the primary, imperative component is steel?
Although i was not involved in a past multi-level wood-frame hotel project within our firm, I recall the stud walls on the first floor being 2x10 studs necessary to support the resulting compression load. I struggle to see this type of construction as cost-efficient. Now, considering a structure 10-20 times higher, what percentage of floor area would be consumed by the required compression area of the wood?
Tall wood buildings are not my area of expertise...
ANSWER: Accomplishment and firm or personal recognition. Now... if it would fail, there would certainly be a different perspective of accomplishment and recognition.
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
More pictures here: http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadien/index.php?are...
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
I love how the person sitting in the bleachers is wearing a helmet.
--
JHG
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
I have a gorgeous ash tree on my front lawn. I understand that it is about 35 years old. You could build a nifty tree-house in it. I am about to have it inoculated in the hope that it will not be killed by emerald ash borer beetles. There are no other ash trees in the immediate vicinity, so I think I have a chance.
What happens fifteen years into your project, when some pest shows up that attacks the species of tree you are relying on. It is bad enough when your electricians go on strike.
--
JHG
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
I'll get a specialized team of spiders and woodpeckers.
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Very Tall Wood Framed Buildings
The view from the top is fantastic. If you are ever traveling in Japan (from Osaka to Hiroshima) it is worth stopping in this very nice small city. And walking to the top of the castle.
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