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Flow test
3

Flow test

Flow test

(OP)
If we already performed the pump acceptance test and it was aproved, do we HAVE to make the flow test with the wtaer lines acording to NFPA?

RE: Flow test

If the test was done correctly, and I am sure it was, you already have that information on the suction side pressures.

If anything the flow test of the city water main should have been conducted long before the pump was purchased.

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Yes we have the correct information on the suction pressures, and we can´t trust the city water so the tanks are 1 hour rated. Let me make myself clear: I mean if we HAVE to make a flow test with the water hoses type 1 and type 2 ?

RE: Flow test

(OP)
NFPA 14 11.5.1 states that a "flow test" shall be performed but our contractor says that as we have a complete sprinkler system in all levels, water lines type 1 and type 2 are a plus and this test is not an obligation for the final acceptance...

RE: Flow test

So flowing of the standpipes?

Not sure why they are saying you do not need that. Not near 14 today.

Is there an ahj involved that also has to approve the entire system?

RE: Flow test

Which edition of nfpa 14 are you using for this?

RE: Flow test

If the pump has passed the acceptance test prescribed by NFPA 20 Chapter 14 (I'm using the 2013 edition) and approved by the AHJ, then no additional testing is required. The piping will still require testing based on whatever water based system is being supplied. If your design calls for a pressure reducing valve, that will need to be flow tested based on whatever design basis creates the largest hydraulic.

Your question is not clear to me so I'm offering a generic answer to a generic question.

RE: Flow test

(OP)
-Flowing of the hoses
-Standards edition is 2013
-AHJ in this case as a supervisor it´s me

Thank you

RE: Flow test

I think what he is looking for is the requirement to flow hoses off the roof manifold, if there is one off the top standpipe outlet if there isn't, to verify there is 65 or 100 psi at the top outlet.

I have had to do this once; not a big deal just make sure the roof can handle the run off.

This all said the reading from the top of the standpipe, where the gauge actually is, is incorrect in my opinion because the standard calls for 65 or 100 psi at the outlet which would be downstream the 2 1/2" angle hose valve. Been a while but I figured it up once and seems to me we needed an extra 15 psi at the gauge to have what was needed at the "outlet".

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Not on the roof but at the first level, to check if the hoses stream reach 9.5 mts

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Our designer says that as we have sprinklers NFPA does not require to test the stand pipe system?

RE: Flow test

The only final test that I think that should be done would be at the inspector test connection to time the activation of the fire pump to determine if it is within reason. You can also flow the 2" drain connection to assess volume flow at sprinkler check valve and to calculate pressure and flow at sprinkler top line.

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Thanks Chicopee, my question is what does NFPA requires? If we have a sprinkler system I don´t have to test the hoses reach?

RE: Flow test

2013::

Seems to want you to flow water

11.5 Flow Tests.

11.5.1* The standpipe system shall be tested to verify system demand.


11.5.1.1 This test shall be conducted by flowing water simultaneously from the outlet(s) indicated in the approved hydraulic calculations of each standpipe as required by Sections 7.8 and 7.10.

The 2016 gives the AHJ the option:::

11.5 Flow Tests.

11.5.1* The standpipe system shall be tested to verify system demand.


11.5.1.1 The test required by 11.5.1 shall be permitted to be waived where acceptable to the AHJ.



11.5.1.2 This test shall be conducted by flowing water simultaneously from the outlet(s) indicated in the approved hydraulic calculations of each standpipe as required by Sections 7.8 and 7.10.



As far as seeing if the hose reaches, should have been checked on the plans, and only questioned if the building layout or hose location has changed from the plans.

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Tks CDAFD. The point is our contractor and designer say that as we have a sprinkler system we are not obliged to test the stand pipe system

RE: Flow test

cdafd is correct.

It's all up to the AHJ and that said there was only once time in my life I had to flow water from the top outlet but it's in there; if it is asked for then it is done.

NFPA #14 has to be watched closely in travels from state to state because if any standard gets tinked with it seems to be this one.

Georgia for example.

With the exception of open parking garages we don't have manual standpipes. Every standpipe must meet the 100 psi at the top unless the local AHJ will accept 65 psi.

But there is a way out that is very close to a manual standpipe and that is if the building is not a high rise the 100 psi (or 65 psi) requirement is waived if ALL standpipe piping is a minimum of 8" diameter. All pipe means all from the tap in the street up to the top outlet; all of it must be 8" diameter. At this point if all you have is 18 psi residual flowing 100 gpm (I actually have one of these) you're good to go in Georgia. Looks silly in a four story Holiday Inn but such is the way around here but we do save on the fire pump.

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Great help guys. It is a high rise building

RE: Flow test

Well to me you have to meet at least three standards and a few other items

NFPA 13,,,14,,, 20,,, ?

So to me you have to meet all three to say the systems meet those standards.

And under the 2013 seems like flow test of the standpipes is required.

RE: Flow test

NFPA 14 is as straight forward as it comes on this

11.5 Flow Tests.
11.5.1* The standpipe system shall be tested to verify system demand.

There is not an exception for fully sprinklered buildings.

Then NFPA 25 is even more black and white for this process at 5 year intervals.

6.3.1.1* A flow test shall be conducted every 5 years on all Class I and Class III standpipe
systems to verify that the required flow and pressure are available at the hydraulically most
remote hose valve outlet(s) while flowing the standpipe system demand

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
"Follow" us at https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/9221...

RE: Flow test

(OP)
Yes, 13, 14 and 20 are official in this project and after your advise we will request the test to be done.

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