what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
(OP)
This platform will be in swamp area. Should I use PT wood to prevent wood decay?
I have ZERO wood design experience.
This is very simple on the structural analysis point of view and I can easily do that.
I'm looking for guidance for the size and type wood column, beam and floor and the connection that would be "practical/common" to use in this case. I can size the wood thru analysis but what size should I start.



I have ZERO wood design experience.
This is very simple on the structural analysis point of view and I can easily do that.
I'm looking for guidance for the size and type wood column, beam and floor and the connection that would be "practical/common" to use in this case. I can size the wood thru analysis but what size should I start.









RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
I would likely be specifying PWF material which provides better preservation than P.T. material.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
I'm googling pwf, that's a good start for me thanks. This looks very simple but I have no wood design exp. I need to know the practical sizes and type of wood to use. I have a wood design book but it's more about analysis.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
The rest of the platform wood I would be using PWF material (Preserved Wood Foundation). Without dimensions and proposed loads I doubt anyone here would even take a stab at rough sizing. Although that existing platform appears to be framed with some pretty hefty timber.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
http://preservedwood.org/TheStory/PreservativeUseC...
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
would the geotech soil report give me the capacity of the pile?
Also I plan to use SYP, treated lumber/timber for all joist, deck, pile or you recommend another type of wood?
for the flooring, I plant on using 1"x6" or you recommend 2"x6"?
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Use whatever lumber you can get around there with the treatment you want. Where I am all the treated lumber (or most) is SPF. But so is all of the other lumber. We don't use SYP for anything because it's not readily available.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Piles Creosote or CCA •2.5 pcf treatment
Structure CCA •2.5 pcf
Fasteners 316 or galvanized hardware that meets ASTM A 153 or better standards
Check environmental requirements http://www.woodpreservers.com/faq.php
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Also nobody answered yet, if this is driven wood piles then it's geotech scope to give me the wood pile capacity, right?
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Note the closely spaced, heavy stringers.
Decking that appears to be a nominal 4" thick.
Pile bracing.
Get the geotech working on this project first thing. The piles are likely friction (not end bearing) with significant embedment length in the poor soils often present in swampy areas. Based on the apparent size of the decking, stringers, and probable long length, nominal 8" piles are probably undersized.
Establish a realistic live load rating, if the client can't provide one, reverse engineer the existing platform superstructure (that won't be hard) to come up with one. IMHO, it probably in the 150 lb/ft2 (or higher) class (no live load reduction).
Simpson does not offer hardware suitable for this type construction. Plan on heavy bolted connections.
I agree with boo1 on the 2.5 pcf CCA treatment and hot dip galvanized fasteners. If creosote is used, specify 12 pcf retention.
www.SlideRuleEra.net
www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
some simple googling gives a few good results though
http://www.theconstructioncivil.org/timber-piles/
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/Timber-piles-and-fo...
http://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/Rollin...
https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/20130726-1...
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
I am surprised that no one specifically recommended some type of engineered wood products. I've been following this thread because I was hoping someone would. Then I could look them up and learn some more about them. Instead, I will ask the question, why not?
There are engineered wood products that combine plastics and wood to make strong, dense products. I would have thought would be less prone to moisture problems than traditional wood. Am I mistaken? Or, is there a reason why these products would not be good for an application such as this?
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
I think the loadings here are very minimal. This is just a simple maintenance platform.
I think the existing wood platform (picture) was overdesigned.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
delagina - You know more about the client's needs than we do... but you did ask the questions, and they are good ones. The cost of the substructure for this type platform will be substantial (driven piling in a swamp). Would be a shame to put a "cheap" superstructure on top of it. Besides, this is obviously an industrial application - not in the same league with Simpson's residential and commercial construction focus.
www.SlideRuleEra.net
www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Round piles with 4x (SYP if east coast) decking/beams with heavy galv connections.
Low risk, available and cheap
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Sometimes the Simpson connectors are not sized for heavy timbers. I think you can get them, even if they are special order, for the sizes indicated in the original platform.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
What you're talking about isn't an engineered wood product like gluelams, but more of a composite wood product, like Trex.
Composite wood products aren't typically used in serious structural applications. You can use them on your deck or other residential application, but you wouldn't want to use them for piles or real beams. The modulus of elasticity is much lower than wood and the strengths are much lower than wood. You also don't typically have a ready source of tested and probability based strengths as you do for the wood design specification. It would be much better to use preservative treated wood, or even preservative treated engineered wood products.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
Dave
Thaidavid
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
we were going into a gravelly inner harbour so had some decent info and quite good soils.
Looking back I think it was drive it into a length or when a certain force on the hammer exceeded a certain number per 100mm of movement / refusal. We didn't want the contractor bashing the living daylights out of the pipe to get it into the ground, but an experienced timber piling contractor will know what hammer force he can use for different sized piles
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
I would also have concerns about the Simpson hardware depending on the specific products used. I worry about the durability of the gauge metal hardware in exterior applications where I would be looking for "weld the hood shut" durability.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
You are kinda asking all the wrong people, all the wrong questions, at this stage of the game. I agree with a number of the earlier posts, this is not a light framing deck, this is an industrial working deck and should be designed and built accordingly. You should most certainly be talking with your client’s pipeline engineering dept. people about the lateral and vert. concentrated loads on the deck, and then also apply something like 100lbs./sq.ft. as a uniform deck loading. There will be pipe supports resting on your framing system, you can see several of them in your photos. I can easily imagine a 20' piece of pipe with several valves on it laying on the deck waiting to replace an existing like pipe section. There might be a couple small portable lifting devices (tripod legs?) standing on the deck for this change-out. They have to explain to you how they will use this deck and the loads they impose on it.
You should most likely use treated timbers to frame this deck. Ask some real industrial lumber suppliers in that area what’s available, species, grades, sizes, lengths, etc., not the local big-box store what they have in stock. Simpson or Mitec, etc. might have some usable framing hardware, but likely not. Again, it is an industrial installation, not light framing; so, while the NDS is a good guide and starting point, along with some good wood design text books, this is timber framing. You use most of the NDS methods for design, but you must use the tables for large sized members, not the 2x - 4x tables. AITC and some large timber suppliers have some good literature on timber framing. Remember that when you stack layers of framing like you photos show, you should block btwn. floor beams (fl. jsts.?) and consider proper bracing systems in all planes and directions or you are kinda building a house-of-cards, layer by layer. Even though you are using treated materials, there are some great peal-n-stick water protection products on the market now. They are applied to the tops of all members, except the deck planks, they are self healing when spikes, screws, bolts penetrate them and they shed the water off the member tops. Available lengths are much more a function of how long a piece of a large timber can be cut out of a tree these days, than are transportation length limits. Longer lengths and larger sizes bring a premium price, and the size vs. transport and lifting might much more be governed by what they can haul several miles through a swamp, and lift at the site. What type of equipment do they use for this haulage and for lifting materials out in the swamp? There should be some soils info. available from when the pipeline was being designed and then also when being built, which would be helpful. They have to inform you on these types of issues, and this in turn will inform your design. They must have some std. details for this type of work, or some plans, by others, from earlier installations. Getting large equipment out there to drive piles could be a real dog. You might take a look at some of the screw-pile/foundation systems and see if they wouldn’t work in place of long wooden piles. One of the things you have to check on their account is that the soil conditions do not cause corrosion problems with the embedded portions of the screw piles. The pile loads should not be that great, and those screw type systems are pretty easy to install with fairly small all-terrain equipment.
RE: what type of wood should i use for platform in swamp area
http://www.portlandbolt.com/products/bolts/timber/