engineering salaries
engineering salaries
(OP)
hi!
I work as a trainee in a large automaker in UK. The pay is decent, comparing to other sectors, but not considerably. Graduates start with 30k, reaching 38k in 4 years. Then, it is a bit hard to become senior, in order to earn 50-60k. Some people after 7-10 years haven't become seniors. After that, it's harder to become supervisor (I guess you need 10+ years) and supervisors earn 60-80k. To become chief engineer or director, it's even harder and comes after 20 years of service at least.
Is there any department I could try to get in to earn a bit more or have better career progression? Maybe legal or finance or IT? Any advice please?
I work as a trainee in a large automaker in UK. The pay is decent, comparing to other sectors, but not considerably. Graduates start with 30k, reaching 38k in 4 years. Then, it is a bit hard to become senior, in order to earn 50-60k. Some people after 7-10 years haven't become seniors. After that, it's harder to become supervisor (I guess you need 10+ years) and supervisors earn 60-80k. To become chief engineer or director, it's even harder and comes after 20 years of service at least.
Is there any department I could try to get in to earn a bit more or have better career progression? Maybe legal or finance or IT? Any advice please?





RE: engineering salaries
A. Perhaps ask in legal-tips.com or finance-tips.com or similar.
B. This implies you don't have a strong interest in being an Engineer but are primarily chasing £ - is that correct? If so then yes you may want to look at careers outside of engineering. Most rapid career progression would probably be as your own boss - if you can pull it off. Unless you're the next Mark Zuckerberg or similar though it may not match your expectations - especially as you don't have experience to build on by the sounds of it.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
Like other industries, the petroleum industry is seeing its fair share of challenges. However, until we are willing to give up life as we know it, petroleum will continue to be a dominant force. Perhaps ask Al Gore for some input.
See link below for a partial list of petroleum byproducts.
http://www.ranken-energy.com/products%20from%20pet...
RE: engineering salaries
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
You did not go to a career site, or resume site, or job searching site, YOU came to an engineering forum for career advice. Therefore you are going to get biased answers.
You do not imply you would like to study anything, since you say you are a trainee I assume you do not have a college degree.
So, basically you came in and said "to move up in engineering it requires hard work and years of commitment. I don't want to wait that long. Where can I move up fast and make lots of money?"
To answer your question, no where. There is not a single career that rewards mediocrity, that is easy to move up in, that pays a lot with little to no experience. The way I think about it is, life is a competition. The people you work with are competing with you to get that raise, or that promotion. There is no easy path in life.
The only way you will bust your butt to get ahead in life, is if you actually enjoy what you are doing. Which is why people keep asking you what you want/like to do. This is on you, and if you want better advice, you should be more specific.
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
What do your parents do? Your attitude so far sounds like you'd be a shoe-in for the stereotypical beneficiary of nepotism.
RE: engineering salaries
Two passing observations here - both similar - one less tongue-in-cheek than the other:
My experience of financiers (I've dealt with them on a daily basis for probably the last fifteen years) is that, while their work involves numbers, it seldom involves doing much more with them than adding them up in different combinations before recognising that the total is either too much, too little or (often) both at once. They do find fulfilling work, but it is seldom much to do with the numbers themselves.
My experience of lawyers (I deal with them less often - deliberately so) is that they don't spend a right lot of their time solving problems.
A.
RE: engineering salaries
A.
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
Not if you stay in this company. I've seen new grads trying to get up the ladder quicker by hopping around the departments early in their career. Those very few who made it, made it by moving from engineering into programme management.
If you want to turn your UK engineering degree into serious earning potential, finish it and consider a law conversion course. Some UK law firms will even sponsor you through one (i.e. pay for it) and offer you a job on completion.
Steve
RE: engineering salaries
However, I've seen too many project engineers that appeared to take this path for the $ reasons, didn't have the experience to back them up and absolutely sucked to work with. I and an old friend used to complain about the inexperienced idiots in project management roles in our respective experience all the time - and this was when we were only a couple of years out of uni. Since then I've sworn to avoid that path if at all possible (& have turned down such positions due to my lack of experience) - though now I may be near getting enough experience to pull it off.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: engineering salaries
Unless you mean to do contract work, which is not something I would consider, as it's very stressful to wait for new projects to come up to get a job.
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: engineering salaries
Those kids grew up tinkering with computers, writing code in their early teens to try and hack a computer or modify a video game. By the time they made it into college, they could probably teach the college course. This does not sound like OP.
RE: engineering salaries
Graduate Engineer - Knows all the math in the world but not really how to do the job. 30k to start is pretty good. Most are lucky to hit 25k. 4 years sounds like the minimum training period before the company will let you loose on your own stuff, at which point the graduate will be worth paying the 38k.
Senior Engineer - You start to step back slightly from the technical side and move into the management part of things. This isn't something you'll be able to jump into after a couple of years on the job. Most places will want you to have achieved the I.Eng professional qualification (at least) with the respective institute. The only way to jump the career ladder on this is if it's 'punishment by promotion' which basically means that you're rubbish and the company doesn't want you putting pencil to paper unless you really have to.
Chief Engineer/Principle/Director - A lot of engineers can go their entire working life without reaching this level, especially in a competitive industry like the automotive industry.
With all that said; engineering is a very rewarding profession. Job satisfaction can be off the scale at times but it's not a 'get rich quick' scheme. It's long hours and lots of CPD. The 9 to 5 worker won't see quick progression.
TL;DR
If you want the cash, you've got to be good and that doesn't happen after a year unfortunately or the forum would be called SuperRichNerds-Tips. IT is even more competitive and Law is for alcoholics in training. A lot of folks can't handle the stress.
Good luck
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
It's not that shabby unless you're somewhere like the Bay area where the cost of living is huge compared to BFE, Midwest. Salary numbers aren't super useful without context like location since you may be much more comfortable on 100k in one location v. 125k in another.
RE: engineering salaries
True, but not all Facebook and Google employees were computer geeks from day one. Some actually didn't start on computer science route until high school.
While the cost of living is high, in the Bay Area, these people are able to afford substantially higher rents than they necessarily need to because of the higher salaries, free food, and free shuttles. A nice 2-bedroom apartment in SoMa goes for about $4k/mth, but only because there's so many highly paid engineers that want to live there. Prior to the advent of the free shuttles to/from the south bay, rents were substantially lower in SoMa and other SF neighborhoods. Oh, and most of these companies also give substantial signing bonuses, on the order of at least 25% of yearly salary, as well as a number of other perks.
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: engineering salaries
Good luck,
Latexman
To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
You can be a better negotiator, but you kind of need a basis to negotiate upon.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: engineering salaries
Where we are, the licensing board puts out a salary survey yearly that breaks down the information in a ton of different ways to allow you to determine where you feel you fit on the scale.
RE: engineering salaries
1) Everyone makes more than you, you get upset and that is generally a bad frame of mind to negotiate from
2) Everyone makes the same, and you decide that's just fine. What if everyone there is underpaid?
3) You make more than everyone else, information goes both ways and they resent you for it, decide you should do more work because you're paid more, you will have trouble getting assistance or working in teams.
There are other more productive ways to figure it out, that don't involve screwing up your office dynamics. If you have patience, ask the next person that leaves out for a drink, and have a salary chat then. That is still of limited value because it only gets you information from within your little bubble, but at least it won't strain relationships.
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
Your original query stated that you want to explore possible career directions in legal affairs, finance or IT, and I got the feeling that you preferred to do so with your current employer.
Here's a crazy idea; just a piece of insanely chaotic thinking from outta nowhere
You appear to equate career progression with remuneration, and that is your prerogative. For some people, that criterion brings the happiness and satisfaction of self-actualization, and for others, due to the painful compromises involved, it does not. If you really equate career progression with the single variable of remuneration, then do not neglect to investigate compensation beyond the shores of the UK.
Good luck.
FastMouse
RE: engineering salaries
Got a lot of good experience, but the day I walked out of there I received a 30% pay increase without even trying with about 50% less hours per week. My sanity has also improved... I still deal with idiots, but there are less of them, or I've become more immune to them...
RE: engineering salaries
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: engineering salaries
One of my college buddies took the patent attorney path. The usual grind as an associate, finally becoming a partner in a well-known, respected firm. He has spent the last 40 years researching and filing patents on tampons, band-aids, baby diapers, and panty liners. It has paid well, certainly, but... I'd hang myself first.
RE: engineering salaries
One says: GIVE MORE TO GET MORE
And that works on me.
RE: engineering salaries
Some people after 7-10 years haven't become seniors. After that, it's harder to become supervisor (I guess you need 10+ years) and supervisors earn 60-80k
A look at the maths will tell you it's not just about the experience. There will be a ratio of supervisors to seniors to entry level so it's impossible for everyone to make a higher grade just because they've been there "long enough". You also have to be good enough.
As a chem eng/metallurgist the first part of any answer I give starts with "It Depends"
RE: engineering salaries
Where managements definition of "good enough" may not match the typical engineers definition.
For instance around here going jogging with the VP at lunch time back when he was in the office more seems like it has had more impact on promotion etc. than technical competence - or at least more import than getting successful product development projects under your belt.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: engineering salaries
-your loyalty to one company is not required or expected
-if you like the house you live in and the schools your kids go to be happy with the slow progression and 2%-3% pay increases
-if more money is more important to you than your house and a stable environment for the kids, then be prepared to change jobs regularly and move significant distances - this is where you will see he double digit increases in salary
I had one guy working for me whose 'normal' was living in cheap efficiency motels with his wife and two kids for 9-12 months at a time. Their typical family dinners would be making the circuit of local hospital cafeterias for in expensive meals
RE: engineering salaries
Absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing a fat paycheck, especially with the spiraling cost of education. How many engineers would show up if a paycheck wasn't there?
In general engineers are always in demand, but years are needed to become a seasoned professional. Once seasoned, hard to be without a job. The engineers I've met at the top of the income scale own their companies.
An engineering degree is a great technical base that can be applied to vocations and advanced degrees in other areas or professions.
Yes many make big money in finance and law, but not near all finance and law graduates make the big money.
If you are half past completing an engineering degree, I suggest you complete the program. They can't take it away. After that, life is too short to follow someone else's agenda. Put yourself in a place to make your own choices and take your shot.
RE: engineering salaries
For what its worth, I second the oil industry, ridiculous money compared to other industries and while it has its problems at the moment, it will pick up again. You may have to move to London or up North to Aberdeen though...
I would also consider going contract (limited company) but you may have to get some experience under your belt befoe that's an option.
RE: engineering salaries
I've seen too many disgruntled folks on this site bemoaning their lot having fallen into Engineering because they were good & math & physics in school but have no real love or even interest in Engineering and complaining late in their career and saying they'd never encourage anyone to become an engineer...
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: engineering salaries
Actually, there is, for those that are already there. UC Berkeley's engineering enrollment is about 1/9th of the total student population. That means even a 5% change in distribution would be enough to drop starting salaries, so people that are only thinking about the $82k average starting salaries are going to drive that number down.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Under those circumstances, any engineering job taken by a person whose only interest in our profession is as a means to a fat paycheque is a total waste. There are other options with a far higher reward to risk and effort ratio than engineering, and I would encourage people like that to leave our profession and pursue them.
I would also dearly love to solve this problem by reducing the supply into the profession so that it more closely matches the labour force demand for engineering jobs. Perhaps then our compensation would begin to match the value of our profession to society, which is inestimable. Regrettably, there are many who confuse the promotion of our profession's value to society, with promoting the profession to potential candidates. Some sell engineering to students as if it were the only thing worth doing, with limitless career and money opportunities upon graduation. That's not borne out by the facts, and spreading that kind of misinformation is damaging.
As to the notion that it is somehow wrong to seek the best compensation for your professional labours that your abilities and labour market will allow- I totally reject that notion. It's totally wrong-headed. We all have a responsibility to seek fair compensation for our efforts, and to do nothing to deny our peers the ability to do the same.
RE: engineering salaries
structural engineersgood structural designers are still hard to come by.RE: engineering salaries
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
Every industry is short the people with ten years' experience that the same industry failed to hire as fresh grads 10 years ago. And in a buyer's labour market, fresh grads are left on the scrapheap. They find other things to do. Businesses get addicted to having piles of candidates with cardboard signs hanging around their necks, responding to every job ad, and figure that the days when professionals needed to be built from good raw materials rather than purchased "just in time" are over. Half the problem we have right now in our profession is the broken transition from graduation to employment. But with at least half of each graduating class currently failing to gain access to jobs in their chosen profession, there is only one solution worth contemplating, and it's a dramatic reduction in supply.
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
I've got to say though that I get very tired of people complaining about being unable to find candidates that they find suitable, when the labour market for engineers is so obviously- and measurably- in oversupply.
We hire co-op students, pick the best ones and hire them, train them, pay them well and give them interesting work. We never experience shortages.
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Look: when a profession can only capture 30% of its graduates on average in a whole nation, it's a freaking disaster. Even teaching exceeds 50% capture here. Engineering is oversupplied to an extent that no other regulated profession is. Why is that? I suggest it's because our governments and our educators feel that there can never be too many of us- and we're too arrogant to disagree. We've allowed a once-proud profession to become "the new liberal arts education".
RE: engineering salaries
The reason would be two-fold. The educators, because turning away paying students would require letting go some of the educators, and the government, because they have a vested interest in driving down wages.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
The days when all you needed was a university degree and it was your ticket to a nice cushy white collar job for the rest of your life are long gone. Engineering is just the regulated profession which is worst affected- so far.
The educators don't care- they have long ago divorced an engineering education from training to work as an engineer. They view it as the new liberal arts education, which makes me cringe on so many levels...
And the anecdotal shortage reports of people like jayrod12 don't help. Lots of people in government and in the regulatory bodies feel that engineering must be in short supply because they hear anecdotes like that, again and again. I've explained how that can happen despite an oversupplied labour market.
For those of you who want to review the stats, I'll post the link to the OSPE study again:
https://www.ospe.on.ca/public/documents/advocacy/2...
p. 8 of that report tells the story, but the rest is worth the read.
RE: engineering salaries
I think a more likely reason for getting an engineering degree is to placate familial pressure; I know someone who got an engineering degree from Berkeley with straight A's, and they even got an engineering job. It was clear that they had very little interest in engineering, and being Asian, it was more likely that their parents (probably father) badgered them into that degree. They stuck it out for almost 4 years, and then quit to work in their father's restaurant. Another engineer worked for a while at McDonnell Douglas as a engineer, but their passion was apparently cooking, and they went off and started Panda Express, after succeeding at their original, standalone, restaurant, the Panda Inn in Pasadena.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
The lack or prestige, I think, is mostly a American thing; most foreign countries treat, or at least, used to treat, engineers with a modicum of respect. Historically, America has been culturally disdainful of academics and intellectuals.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
That's a pretty hefty claim against the country that invented the airplane and put a man on the moon. What history are you talking about?
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Though, I am lucky enough to deal with engineers from all over the world.. I find Japanese and German hold engineering in a the highest light (this is obvious to most..)
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
A couple of my personnel observations;
1) On a recent Trip to China, myself and several business people, we were invited to a dinner by the director of the free-trade zone at Dalian. At that dinner I was told to sit at the RHS of the Director because "You are the Engineering Manager, and the Others were just business people".
2) In Germany, an engineer is called Ir. Wolfgang (assuming that your name is in fact Wolfgang). The term "Ir" means "Engineer", similar to 'Dr" means "Doctor". [ie an Engineer is held in high esteem in Germany.]
3) In North America, whenever an expert from a University is interviewed for her/his opinion, they are seldom referred to as Dr so-and-so, but just as so-and-so. Why do they do this, when clearly the interviewee clearly must hold a PhD? I believe it is (partially) because of the negative stereo-types being portrayed by our media. [ie all technical people are eggheads.]
Is it possible that the media does not want to confuse the public, since many of the public may not realize that the title "Dr" can apply to someone other than a medical doctor?
4) Without scientists and engineers, we would still be sitting in trees throwing our excrement at each other.
GG
"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." -- Bob Seger
RE: engineering salaries
4) excrement can be washed off, and most people, I think, won't get killed by excrement; nuclear bombs and chemical weapons, on the other hand... If progress is measured by how well and thoroughly we can kill each other, then yes, we've arrived. As Pogo once said, "Yep, son, we have met the enemy and he is us."
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
RE: engineering salaries
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
RE: engineering salaries
Steve
RE: engineering salaries
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?