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engineering salaries
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engineering salaries

engineering salaries

(OP)
hi!

I work as a trainee in a large automaker in UK. The pay is decent, comparing to other sectors, but not considerably. Graduates start with 30k, reaching 38k in 4 years. Then, it is a bit hard to become senior, in order to earn 50-60k. Some people after 7-10 years haven't become seniors. After that, it's harder to become supervisor (I guess you need 10+ years) and supervisors earn 60-80k. To become chief engineer or director, it's even harder and comes after 20 years of service at least.

Is there any department I could try to get in to earn a bit more or have better career progression? Maybe legal or finance or IT? Any advice please?

RE: engineering salaries

2
Ballist, you're on an Engineering web site to ask if you can earn more money in a non engineering role?

A. Perhaps ask in legal-tips.com or finance-tips.com or similar.
B. This implies you don't have a strong interest in being an Engineer but are primarily chasing £ - is that correct? If so then yes you may want to look at careers outside of engineering. Most rapid career progression would probably be as your own boss - if you can pull it off. Unless you're the next Mark Zuckerberg or similar though it may not match your expectations - especially as you don't have experience to build on by the sounds of it.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
I need some career advice here! I am also asking if there is more money in an engineering role.

RE: engineering salaries

What exactly do YOU want to do? If it's about chasing the almighty pound sterling or dollar, then you're not really an engineer, and you will mostly be both miserable and unsuccessful, since anything that you attempt to do that isn't your passion will likely result in less enthusiasm and yield less than your best efforts. If that's what you're chasing, then you should be in petroleum engineering. http://www.businessinsider.com/college-majors-with...

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
I do enjoy problem solving, thus I enjoy law. I do enjoy working with numbers, thus I enjoy finance. I don't see why you are so negative. I wouldn't bet on petroleum industry, don't you see the crisis it has now? And with electrification of cars, or stricter laws, renewable energy, etc, it will be less profitable.

RE: engineering salaries

Ok, I know I have strayed from topic...however..

Like other industries, the petroleum industry is seeing its fair share of challenges. However, until we are willing to give up life as we know it, petroleum will continue to be a dominant force. Perhaps ask Al Gore for some input.

See link below for a partial list of petroleum byproducts.

http://www.ranken-energy.com/products%20from%20pet...

RE: engineering salaries

If money is your only concern then become an air traffic controller. Everything else about it will probably suck (stress, hours, limited availability of jobs, probably have to move, etc.) but you'll make money.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com

RE: engineering salaries

I suggest engineering sales. AutoCAD and everybody is selling the cloud. Maybe you could sell some vapor, too.

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
Do you know what tests you have to pass to be air traffic controller? It's not possible for most.

RE: engineering salaries

5
Ballist,

You did not go to a career site, or resume site, or job searching site, YOU came to an engineering forum for career advice. Therefore you are going to get biased answers.

You do not imply you would like to study anything, since you say you are a trainee I assume you do not have a college degree.

So, basically you came in and said "to move up in engineering it requires hard work and years of commitment. I don't want to wait that long. Where can I move up fast and make lots of money?"

To answer your question, no where. There is not a single career that rewards mediocrity, that is easy to move up in, that pays a lot with little to no experience. The way I think about it is, life is a competition. The people you work with are competing with you to get that raise, or that promotion. There is no easy path in life.

The only way you will bust your butt to get ahead in life, is if you actually enjoy what you are doing. Which is why people keep asking you what you want/like to do. This is on you, and if you want better advice, you should be more specific.

RE: engineering salaries

If your figures are accurate then stay with automotive. It is beating the majority of the engineering world hands down.

RE: engineering salaries

3
If there was an easy path that got you to the top in 5-10 years with six-figure pay, without requiring much commitment or investment... everyone would already have filled those roles.

What do your parents do? Your attitude so far sounds like you'd be a shoe-in for the stereotypical beneficiary of nepotism. wink

RE: engineering salaries

Quote (ballist)

I do enjoy problem solving, thus I enjoy law. I do enjoy working with numbers, thus I enjoy finance.

Two passing observations here - both similar - one less tongue-in-cheek than the other:

My experience of financiers (I've dealt with them on a daily basis for probably the last fifteen years) is that, while their work involves numbers, it seldom involves doing much more with them than adding them up in different combinations before recognising that the total is either too much, too little or (often) both at once. They do find fulfilling work, but it is seldom much to do with the numbers themselves.

My experience of lawyers (I deal with them less often - deliberately so) is that they don't spend a right lot of their time solving problems.

A.

RE: engineering salaries

Quote (ballist)

Do you know what tests you have to pass to be air traffic controller? It's not possible for most.
I was talking recently to an ex-colleague who has just been reassigned to train as an air-traffic controller - straight after being chucked out of pilot training because of his left-right problem when under pressure.

A.

RE: engineering salaries

Ballist - if you want to chase money, join a startup company, work like crazy, and hope they make it big so you can cash out stock options. Or go get a law degree and go into patent law.

RE: engineering salaries

How about find something you like and run hard at it? Would you like to be able to freelance on the side? Maybe, start your own business at some point?

RE: engineering salaries

Its hard to detect the work ethic in the OP that would be necessary to start a successful business. Besides what wolud he sell apart from the desire to be rich.

RE: engineering salaries

Quote:

I work as a trainee in a large automaker in UK.
...
Is there any department I could try to get in to earn a bit more or have better career progression?

Not if you stay in this company. I've seen new grads trying to get up the ladder quicker by hopping around the departments early in their career. Those very few who made it, made it by moving from engineering into programme management.

If you want to turn your UK engineering degree into serious earning potential, finish it and consider a law conversion course. Some UK law firms will even sponsor you through one (i.e. pay for it) and offer you a job on completion.

Steve

RE: engineering salaries

If you want to stay in an Engineering related role and get more money then as Sompting alludes project management roles may be an avenue.

However, I've seen too many project engineers that appeared to take this path for the $ reasons, didn't have the experience to back them up and absolutely sucked to work with. I and an old friend used to complain about the inexperienced idiots in project management roles in our respective experience all the time - and this was when we were only a couple of years out of uni. Since then I've sworn to avoid that path if at all possible (& have turned down such positions due to my lack of experience) - though now I may be near getting enough experience to pull it off.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
Unfortunately there are many project managers in my company, but they don't get paid any more afaik.
Unless you mean to do contract work, which is not something I would consider, as it's very stressful to wait for new projects to come up to get a job.

RE: engineering salaries

If money is your objective do not be an engineer. If you want to be an engineer, you can make a good living, but engineering will not generate excessive financial wealth.

RE: engineering salaries

I think IRStuff is alluding to the few that make it into Google, Apple etc...

Those kids grew up tinkering with computers, writing code in their early teens to try and hack a computer or modify a video game. By the time they made it into college, they could probably teach the college course. This does not sound like OP.

RE: engineering salaries

OP: Maybe a bit of perspective is needed.

Graduate Engineer - Knows all the math in the world but not really how to do the job. 30k to start is pretty good. Most are lucky to hit 25k. 4 years sounds like the minimum training period before the company will let you loose on your own stuff, at which point the graduate will be worth paying the 38k.

Senior Engineer - You start to step back slightly from the technical side and move into the management part of things. This isn't something you'll be able to jump into after a couple of years on the job. Most places will want you to have achieved the I.Eng professional qualification (at least) with the respective institute. The only way to jump the career ladder on this is if it's 'punishment by promotion' which basically means that you're rubbish and the company doesn't want you putting pencil to paper unless you really have to.

Chief Engineer/Principle/Director - A lot of engineers can go their entire working life without reaching this level, especially in a competitive industry like the automotive industry.

With all that said; engineering is a very rewarding profession. Job satisfaction can be off the scale at times but it's not a 'get rich quick' scheme. It's long hours and lots of CPD. The 9 to 5 worker won't see quick progression.

TL;DR

If you want the cash, you've got to be good and that doesn't happen after a year unfortunately or the forum would be called SuperRichNerds-Tips. IT is even more competitive and Law is for alcoholics in training. A lot of folks can't handle the stress.

Good luck

RE: engineering salaries

A friend and uni classmate of mine works for Google. When he announced that he'd gotten this job, I replied to him that I wasn't going to congratulate him because, in statistical terms, nobody actually worked for Google ergo neither did he.

RE: engineering salaries

Quote (IRstuff)

That all depends; a EE/CS major, not even 2 yrs out of college making $150k is nothing to sneeze at. While it's still not excessive financial wealth, it's not that shabby.

It's not that shabby unless you're somewhere like the Bay area where the cost of living is huge compared to BFE, Midwest. Salary numbers aren't super useful without context like location since you may be much more comfortable on 100k in one location v. 125k in another.

RE: engineering salaries

zwtipp05, etal,

True, but not all Facebook and Google employees were computer geeks from day one. Some actually didn't start on computer science route until high school.

While the cost of living is high, in the Bay Area, these people are able to afford substantially higher rents than they necessarily need to because of the higher salaries, free food, and free shuttles. A nice 2-bedroom apartment in SoMa goes for about $4k/mth, but only because there's so many highly paid engineers that want to live there. Prior to the advent of the free shuttles to/from the south bay, rents were substantially lower in SoMa and other SF neighborhoods. Oh, and most of these companies also give substantial signing bonuses, on the order of at least 25% of yearly salary, as well as a number of other perks.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
Basically I am not sure if I made it clear in my first post, but what I am after is some insight about the legal and financial teams of automakers. Do they pay more? Can you get training in such legal department? Are there better career progression prospects or it is like the overcrowded engineers who are basically admin assistants and that's why they get low pay?

RE: engineering salaries

Based on the numbers you posted earlier the engineers / admin assistants are on pretty good money. Why do you think otherwise?

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
Glassdoor has no information and when it has it's vastly outdated or inaccurate. I didn't say engineers are not in good money, I just explore other routes, which if I am capable to follow, they may be attractive, is that bad?

RE: engineering salaries

Maybe ask questions about financial or law careers in a more applicable site. You're asking engineers to comment on careers they are not in...

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
Yeah, but they are in companies that have them, that's why I am asking if anyone knows.

RE: engineering salaries

Quote (IRstuff)

As a general rule, coworker salaries are not known.
I'm finding that's often not the case with the current generation (for better or worse). At my last position, there was an incident that created a lot of bad blood... new guy spouted off how much he was making, mid-level guy was making significantly less. The ensuing "discussion" between mid-level guy, management, etc. over the next few months left blood splatter on the walls.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: engineering salaries

As it should have!

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

RE: engineering salaries

I think what other my co-workers make has zero impact on what I should make. I negotiate my salary based on what I feel I'm worth when compared to the salary survey put together by our licensing board. The fact that I'm a better, or worse, negotiator than the guy working down the hall from me is not my employer's fault.

RE: engineering salaries

Of course, knowing how much the position is worth in general helps you to negotiate top dollar, does it not? You can't know how much the position is worth until you have a feel for how much similar employees (not necessarily in your company, mind you) are commanding.

You can be a better negotiator, but you kind of need a basis to negotiate upon.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: engineering salaries

Agreed,

Where we are, the licensing board puts out a salary survey yearly that breaks down the information in a ton of different ways to allow you to determine where you feel you fit on the scale.

RE: engineering salaries

If you want to know what coworkers are making, then you think you're not making enough. 3 potential outcomes, all bad

1) Everyone makes more than you, you get upset and that is generally a bad frame of mind to negotiate from
2) Everyone makes the same, and you decide that's just fine. What if everyone there is underpaid?
3) You make more than everyone else, information goes both ways and they resent you for it, decide you should do more work because you're paid more, you will have trouble getting assistance or working in teams.

There are other more productive ways to figure it out, that don't involve screwing up your office dynamics. If you have patience, ask the next person that leaves out for a drink, and have a salary chat then. That is still of limited value because it only gets you information from within your little bubble, but at least it won't strain relationships.

RE: engineering salaries

(OP)
Thank you all for your input.

RE: engineering salaries

1Gibson, that dosnt make much sense! You need to know what your co workers make to be able to judge your own position. I have only rarely discussed salery with my co-workers but i appreaciate (and participtes) in the salary surveys that my trade/professional association conducts

RE: engineering salaries

If you are really looking for money and also because you are good at finance, I say after attaining some experience as an engineer, say some 6-7 years, go for a business school and try getting a job in the Engineering field after your business course, where you can work at management level while helping out engineers with their engineering problem. Sounds complicated but you have to work hard. I know someone who actually did it. :)

RE: engineering salaries

Hi ballist,

Your original query stated that you want to explore possible career directions in legal affairs, finance or IT, and I got the feeling that you preferred to do so with your current employer.

Here's a crazy idea; just a piece of insanely chaotic thinking from outta nowhere smile but why not pick up the 'phone, call the head of legal affairs, and ask for an informal chat during lunch about the work of that function and possible career directions. Repeat as required for your other selected functions. Your current boss will find out about this even if you do not tell him or her, so get your story straight and discuss it with your leader beforehand. How you spin it is up to you, but I think that a way can be found to explain the discussions in very positive terms.

You appear to equate career progression with remuneration, and that is your prerogative. For some people, that criterion brings the happiness and satisfaction of self-actualization, and for others, due to the painful compromises involved, it does not. If you really equate career progression with the single variable of remuneration, then do not neglect to investigate compensation beyond the shores of the UK.

Good luck.

FastMouse

RE: engineering salaries

On the subject of those industry salary surveys, I once worked for a company that advised us not to take part as they were presumably worried that having 2000 employees in a reasonably small country would skew the numbers and it would clearly indicate the industry perception that they paid salaries in the lower quartile if someone were to view the data on a company by company basis.

Got a lot of good experience, but the day I walked out of there I received a 30% pay increase without even trying with about 50% less hours per week. My sanity has also improved... I still deal with idiots, but there are less of them, or I've become more immune to them...

RE: engineering salaries

I used to work as a contract worker ( Job shopper ) for many years. In almost every instance I was told ," You are making more than your co-workers, do not, tell them what you are making.".
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: engineering salaries

Quote:

Ballist - if you want to chase money...go get a law degree and go into patent law.

One of my college buddies took the patent attorney path. The usual grind as an associate, finally becoming a partner in a well-known, respected firm. He has spent the last 40 years researching and filing patents on tampons, band-aids, baby diapers, and panty liners. It has paid well, certainly, but... I'd hang myself first.

RE: engineering salaries

I think most of forumers here have replied realistically base on experience which I think is true.

One says: GIVE MORE TO GET MORE
And that works on me.

RE: engineering salaries

Continuing with the thread resurrection- I'd address one point in the original post
Some people after 7-10 years haven't become seniors. After that, it's harder to become supervisor (I guess you need 10+ years) and supervisors earn 60-80k
A look at the maths will tell you it's not just about the experience. There will be a ratio of supervisors to seniors to entry level so it's impossible for everyone to make a higher grade just because they've been there "long enough". You also have to be good enough.

As a chem eng/metallurgist the first part of any answer I give starts with "It Depends"

RE: engineering salaries

"You also have to be good enough."

Where managements definition of "good enough" may not match the typical engineers definition.

For instance around here going jogging with the VP at lunch time back when he was in the office more seems like it has had more impact on promotion etc. than technical competence - or at least more import than getting successful product development projects under your belt.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: engineering salaries

from my experience:
-your loyalty to one company is not required or expected
-if you like the house you live in and the schools your kids go to be happy with the slow progression and 2%-3% pay increases
-if more money is more important to you than your house and a stable environment for the kids, then be prepared to change jobs regularly and move significant distances - this is where you will see he double digit increases in salary

I had one guy working for me whose 'normal' was living in cheap efficiency motels with his wife and two kids for 9-12 months at a time. Their typical family dinners would be making the circuit of local hospital cafeterias for in expensive meals

RE: engineering salaries

2
Guys - What are you trying to do? Chase away talent?

Absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing a fat paycheck, especially with the spiraling cost of education. How many engineers would show up if a paycheck wasn't there?

In general engineers are always in demand, but years are needed to become a seasoned professional. Once seasoned, hard to be without a job. The engineers I've met at the top of the income scale own their companies.

An engineering degree is a great technical base that can be applied to vocations and advanced degrees in other areas or professions.

Yes many make big money in finance and law, but not near all finance and law graduates make the big money.

If you are half past completing an engineering degree, I suggest you complete the program. They can't take it away. After that, life is too short to follow someone else's agenda. Put yourself in a place to make your own choices and take your shot.

RE: engineering salaries

My thoughts exactly.....I was cringing reading these replies, like its ridiculous to want to get paid as much as possible.

For what its worth, I second the oil industry, ridiculous money compared to other industries and while it has its problems at the moment, it will pick up again. You may have to move to London or up North to Aberdeen though...

I would also consider going contract (limited company) but you may have to get some experience under your belt befoe that's an option.

RE: engineering salaries

Chase away talent no, however questioning whether the OP was actually interested in Engineering or just fell into it thinking the big $/£ would follow.

I've seen too many disgruntled folks on this site bemoaning their lot having fallen into Engineering because they were good & math & physics in school but have no real love or even interest in Engineering and complaining late in their career and saying they'd never encourage anyone to become an engineer...

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: engineering salaries

"Guys - What are you trying to do? Chase away talent? Absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing a fat paycheck,"

Actually, there is, for those that are already there. UC Berkeley's engineering enrollment is about 1/9th of the total student population. That means even a 5% change in distribution would be enough to drop starting salaries, so people that are only thinking about the $82k average starting salaries are going to drive that number down.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

3
Yes, I'll bore you yet again- here in Canada we are drowning in engineers, to the point that already only 30% of our engineering grads work as engineers. That ratio has fallen steeply and steadily for the past 2 decades and continues to shrink. It's the worst of all the regulated professions in Canada, by far.

Under those circumstances, any engineering job taken by a person whose only interest in our profession is as a means to a fat paycheque is a total waste. There are other options with a far higher reward to risk and effort ratio than engineering, and I would encourage people like that to leave our profession and pursue them.

I would also dearly love to solve this problem by reducing the supply into the profession so that it more closely matches the labour force demand for engineering jobs. Perhaps then our compensation would begin to match the value of our profession to society, which is inestimable. Regrettably, there are many who confuse the promotion of our profession's value to society, with promoting the profession to potential candidates. Some sell engineering to students as if it were the only thing worth doing, with limitless career and money opportunities upon graduation. That's not borne out by the facts, and spreading that kind of misinformation is damaging.

As to the notion that it is somehow wrong to seek the best compensation for your professional labours that your abilities and labour market will allow- I totally reject that notion. It's totally wrong-headed. We all have a responsibility to seek fair compensation for our efforts, and to do nothing to deny our peers the ability to do the same.

RE: engineering salaries

Quote (moltenmetal)

here in Canada we are drowning in engineers
perhaps this is a regional or discipline thing. Because in here in the middle prairies, structural engineers good structural designers are still hard to come by.

RE: engineering salaries

Poor wording perhaps, even when there are lots of engineers there are likely to be niches (by sector, experience level, location...) that still have shortages. For instances, having lots of engineering grads does not directly translate to having a surfeit of 'good structural designers' in a specific location assuming by good you in part mean suitably experienced with a demonstrated track record.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: engineering salaries

No to me good means:

  • eager to learn
  • pays attention to everything someone with more experience says
  • asks questions
  • spends too much of their private time cruising eng-tips
  • has a good sense of proportion

RE: engineering salaries

jayrod12: offer pay 20% higher than the local "going rate" and see what kind of candidates you attract. Can't afford that? Then you, like the pointy haired boss in the Dilbert comics, want the very best technical professionals- but only the ones who are dim enough to accept industry average compensation. You can want it all you like, but those "bright, but clueless" people are very tough to find.

Every industry is short the people with ten years' experience that the same industry failed to hire as fresh grads 10 years ago. And in a buyer's labour market, fresh grads are left on the scrapheap. They find other things to do. Businesses get addicted to having piles of candidates with cardboard signs hanging around their necks, responding to every job ad, and figure that the days when professionals needed to be built from good raw materials rather than purchased "just in time" are over. Half the problem we have right now in our profession is the broken transition from graduation to employment. But with at least half of each graduating class currently failing to gain access to jobs in their chosen profession, there is only one solution worth contemplating, and it's a dramatic reduction in supply.

RE: engineering salaries

I don't even know you and you compare me to Dilbert's boss? That's a good way to end what could have been a good discussion. I can see why you have such a negative outlook.

RE: engineering salaries

jayrod12: that was NOT intended as a personal attack- I used my comparison to my favourite Dilbert comic as a tactic of argument. I'm sorry if I offended you. For all I know, you're the best boss around and your hair isn't even nearly pointy!

I've got to say though that I get very tired of people complaining about being unable to find candidates that they find suitable, when the labour market for engineers is so obviously- and measurably- in oversupply.

We hire co-op students, pick the best ones and hire them, train them, pay them well and give them interesting work. We never experience shortages.

RE: engineering salaries

Just as another talking point... just because there's an "over-supply" of engineers in the marketplace doesn't mean they're experienced engineers. Every semester a class graduates, the out-of-work engineer number surges... because there are suddenly more "engineers" in the marketplace. Doesn't mean they're useful, but they hold the title, so they must be counted.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: engineering salaries

Part of me wonders if this oversupply is a mindset that lingers from the cold war and is thought to be linked with national security. During and after an all out conflict, I think there would be an incredible need for engineers.

RE: engineering salaries

The Cold War thing pretty burned out in the 90s. Even then, the market share for defense-related jobs was tiny compared to commercial; we were lamenting in the late 80s that defense electronics was less than 5% of the total electronics sector, which meant that no one was particularly interested in jumping through the hoops needed to be a qualified military electronics supplier.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

I talking more about if the infrastructure was damaged. I don't think think it would take much of a conflict to stretch available engineering and delay recovery.

RE: engineering salaries

Actually, that would not be true. In an all-out conflict, as in WWII, the work force needed factory workers, not engineers. And infrastructure requires primarily SE and CE, so a generalized demand for "engineers" is silly and counter-productive. Moreover, those engineers that are not working as engineers are likely to have completely forgotten their relevant education, and would hardly be a "reserve force" that's immediately ready to do engineering.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

Sure doesn't seem to be a lot of job postings for structural engineers in the prairies from where I sit. Basically stuck at my current firm until I get laid off and then faced with the prospect of leaving east.

RE: engineering salaries

Any large country is going to have inhomogeneities in workforce. Alabama and California have different wants and needs. Even in Baton Rouge, where lots of infrastructure is damaged, engineers are essentially only needed for the damage assessment, for now. It'll be years for money to be allocated, contracts drawn up, etc.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

As I said, the oversupply can and certainly does coexist with localized shortages of experienced people. Every industry is short the people with 10 yrs of experience that it failed to hire 10 years ago. The same is true of boom/bust industries like oil and gas: they're desperately short people in boom times, they flush out during bust times, then when they try to rebuild during the next boom cycle, the people they had as 2nd tier last time have all moved on. They may have once been considered qualified, but now they're considered 10 yrs out of date.

Look: when a profession can only capture 30% of its graduates on average in a whole nation, it's a freaking disaster. Even teaching exceeds 50% capture here. Engineering is oversupplied to an extent that no other regulated profession is. Why is that? I suggest it's because our governments and our educators feel that there can never be too many of us- and we're too arrogant to disagree. We've allowed a once-proud profession to become "the new liberal arts education".

RE: engineering salaries

"I suggest it's because our governments and our educators feel that there can never be too many of us"

The reason would be two-fold. The educators, because turning away paying students would require letting go some of the educators, and the government, because they have a vested interest in driving down wages.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

Do Canadians not check to see that their degree is in demand before they pursue it? I know one could ask the same of Art, History, and English majors in the States, but I'd expect those thinking of pursuing engineering to have slightly more forethought than the "next guy".

RE: engineering salaries

I feel that there are people who take engineering who never really plan to be an engineer. The engineering degree on it's own opens a lot of doors. It also shows employers that you are capable of teaching yourself new skills, and capable of being dedicated enough to finish an extremely tough degree.

RE: engineering salaries

Many engineers in Canada refuse to believe what the data is saying. Why should prospective students be any different?

The days when all you needed was a university degree and it was your ticket to a nice cushy white collar job for the rest of your life are long gone. Engineering is just the regulated profession which is worst affected- so far.

The educators don't care- they have long ago divorced an engineering education from training to work as an engineer. They view it as the new liberal arts education, which makes me cringe on so many levels...

And the anecdotal shortage reports of people like jayrod12 don't help. Lots of people in government and in the regulatory bodies feel that engineering must be in short supply because they hear anecdotes like that, again and again. I've explained how that can happen despite an oversupplied labour market.

For those of you who want to review the stats, I'll post the link to the OSPE study again:

https://www.ospe.on.ca/public/documents/advocacy/2...

p. 8 of that report tells the story, but the rest is worth the read.

RE: engineering salaries

I don't think that being an engineering major means that your frontal cortex is any more developed than the next person's.

I think a more likely reason for getting an engineering degree is to placate familial pressure; I know someone who got an engineering degree from Berkeley with straight A's, and they even got an engineering job. It was clear that they had very little interest in engineering, and being Asian, it was more likely that their parents (probably father) badgered them into that degree. They stuck it out for almost 4 years, and then quit to work in their father's restaurant. Another engineer worked for a while at McDonnell Douglas as a engineer, but their passion was apparently cooking, and they went off and started Panda Express, after succeeding at their original, standalone, restaurant, the Panda Inn in Pasadena.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

I never saw engineering as something so prestigious that parents would pressure a child into it. Then again, I'm just another boring mechanical in the sea, not biomedical or aerospace.

RE: engineering salaries

It's not a question of prestige, per se, but a diversion from something wholly unemployable like medieval clothing design...

The lack or prestige, I think, is mostly a American thing; most foreign countries treat, or at least, used to treat, engineers with a modicum of respect. Historically, America has been culturally disdainful of academics and intellectuals.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

Quote (IRstuff)

Historically, America has been culturally disdainful of academics and intellectuals.

That's a pretty hefty claim against the country that invented the airplane and put a man on the moon. What history are you talking about?

RE: engineering salaries

Doesn't seem like it's historically accurate, but America seems pretty anti-intellectual at the moment.

RE: engineering salaries

Popular culture has portrayed scientists and engineers as "nerds," "eggheads," etc. Rocky and Bullwinkle had a segment where the white-coated scientists had egg-shaped heads. Even when the tables are turned, it's still "Revenge of the NERDS." While education and intellectual pursuits have been the purview of the middle and upper classes, the "common man" has treated college education as a sell-out of their class. see: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006LSVB1M/ref=dp-kindle...

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

I too noticed the lack of prestige we deserve (not that there is none)...
Though, I am lucky enough to deal with engineers from all over the world.. I find Japanese and German hold engineering in a the highest light (this is obvious to most..)

RE: engineering salaries

In India, one million engineering graduates are coming out of colleges, every year. Hardly 20 % can get a job connected with engineering, including IT sector. You can find engineering graduates as Clerks in banks. In Germany and Japan, good engineers are preferred for business managers,but in other countries, MBAs are running the show.

RE: engineering salaries

Howdy,
A couple of my personnel observations;
1) On a recent Trip to China, myself and several business people, we were invited to a dinner by the director of the free-trade zone at Dalian. At that dinner I was told to sit at the RHS of the Director because "You are the Engineering Manager, and the Others were just business people".
2) In Germany, an engineer is called Ir. Wolfgang (assuming that your name is in fact Wolfgang). The term "Ir" means "Engineer", similar to 'Dr" means "Doctor". [ie an Engineer is held in high esteem in Germany.]
3) In North America, whenever an expert from a University is interviewed for her/his opinion, they are seldom referred to as Dr so-and-so, but just as so-and-so. Why do they do this, when clearly the interviewee clearly must hold a PhD? I believe it is (partially) because of the negative stereo-types being portrayed by our media. [ie all technical people are eggheads.]
Is it possible that the media does not want to confuse the public, since many of the public may not realize that the title "Dr" can apply to someone other than a medical doctor?
4) Without scientists and engineers, we would still be sitting in trees throwing our excrement at each other.
GG

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." -- Bob Seger

RE: engineering salaries

3) I've heard PhDs referred to as "Doctor" in most interviews that I can recall, but, I think there's a self-censorship at play; non-medical PhDs are often derided for referring to themselves as "Doctor," and, many PhDs feel the need to not refer to themselves as "Doctor" so as to lend in better with the unwashed masses.

4) excrement can be washed off, and most people, I think, won't get killed by excrement; nuclear bombs and chemical weapons, on the other hand... If progress is measured by how well and thoroughly we can kill each other, then yes, we've arrived. As Pogo once said, "Yep, son, we have met the enemy and he is us."

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: engineering salaries

I don't see why medical doctors don't make more frequent use of the MD abbreviation. I think a title like "Dr James Bond" carries the same weight as "James Bond, MD". If we could somehow convince the medical doctors to follow the standard "<First> <Last>, MD" and "MD <Last>" it would make room for the rest of the PhD professions to use "Dr <First> <Last>" and "DR <Last>". Then again, even with this clarification, people will need to ask the follow-up question "doctor of what?".

RE: engineering salaries

You'd get a hard stare, possibly a correction from a medical consultant in the UK if you unknowingly called him/her (only) Dr.

Steve

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