Colapsed Water TK Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 19 Feb 16 14:11 Vacuum problem?? http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=34b474ef-6f00-4f9e-ae37-0e RE: Colapsed Water TK LittleInch (Petroleum) 19 Feb 16 15:03 Maybe, Or wind or maybe one of those big trees you can see fell over and landed on it? riveted tank and seems quite high to not have a wind girder Remember - More details = better answers Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it. RE: Colapsed Water TK bimr (Civil/Environmental) 19 Feb 16 15:14 The collapse of the tank may be due to vacuum. Can't tell from the picture if there is a roof on the tank. It is also odd that there is no coating on the tank. The tank looks like a bolted tank, not riveted. RE: Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 19 Feb 16 15:46 See another attached picture, LittleInch´s theory seems to be very correct. http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=7cfaa43a-5ada-494a-8f8f-3e RE: Colapsed Water TK MJCronin (Mechanical) 19 Feb 16 15:50 More pictures, more information .....and of course you get better answers !!! ..... As is typical in this forum, the OP begins a long wasteful guessing game I believe that this is a riveted tank, based on its double and triple row of fasteners. The fact that there is no exterior coating or shiny fasteners also leads me to believe this. This tank may have a vacuum failure, but it does not look like a typical vacuum failure. Most vacuum failures show a collapse that begins near the top of the shell and forms vertical "valleys" Where is the tank located ? How old is the tank ??? Is there a large operating tank vent ??? http://sache.org/beacon/files/2007/02/en/read/2007... I believe that this is a buckling tank failure and may be related to years of internal corrosion at the water/air interface level. This particular tank should serve as a lesson on the long term advantage of internal and external coatings .... !!!! Sulfuric acid tanks, which suffer accelerated erosion at this interface, fail in the same way MJCronin Sr. Process Engineer RE: Colapsed Water TK LittleInch (Petroleum) 19 Feb 16 16:23 The second photo shows a fairly large "patche" with a number of smaller ones when you zoom in a bit. I like guesswork on Friday afternoon! Remember - More details = better answers Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it. RE: Colapsed Water TK bimr (Civil/Environmental) 19 Feb 16 20:42 Riveting of tanks ended sometime in the 1930's. That and I have never seen a riveted tank of this size makes me doubt that this is a riveted tank. Of course, this is more like a game of twenty questions. Here is a picture of a bolted tank: It is unusual that the 2nd picture shows evidence of numerous leaks while the 1st picture shows none. If this is a water tank, the corrosion will have been most severe at the water line, so it is possible that may have been caused by vacuum failure. The question is; does the tank have a roof. Don't think this is tree damage because the extent of damage is too great to have been caused by a single tree. RE: Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 19 Feb 16 21:04 It is a water TK - 3000 m3 No information yet about the roof (there is /there isn´t) RE: Colapsed Water TK JStephen (Mechanical) 19 Feb 16 23:08 It looks to me like primarily a corrosion failure. I've seen where tanks that were held at nearly a constant level would could have a band of corrosion at the interface. Usually, vacuum or wind blow-in would be a large area on one side of the tank, not a band around it like that. Usually, seismic buckling would be at the bottom. Looks like a riveted tank to me. I remember one guy saying the last tank he had seen riveted was in the 1950's (in the US) and it was done that way to match an existing tank. However, that transition could have varied depending on local labor and practices. RE: Colapsed Water TK Compositepro (Chemical) 20 Feb 16 21:47 To me it this does not at all look like a vacuum failure. The tank wall has buckled from vertical force not radial. Prehaps corrosion lowered the buckling strength but it looks like wind loading could have caused this. RE: Colapsed Water TK zdas04 (Mechanical) 20 Feb 16 22:05 I can buy the corrosion and buckling from the weight of the tank above the thinning, but it definitely is not a tree-fall since there is no impact mark on the top of the tank. David Simpson, PE MuleShoe Engineering In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist RE: Colapsed Water TK chicopee (Mechanical) 21 Feb 16 01:52 The damage looks more like a vacuum problem since the damage is in the upper course where metal is thinner. RE: Colapsed Water TK IFRs (Petroleum) 21 Feb 16 04:30 To me this looks like a pretty small riveted ( or perhaps bolted ) tank. I've worked on many that were over 100' diameter. At first I thought it might be seismic failure but I'm liking vacuum failure more, but not your usual one where it is discovered quickly - the roof was sucked in and continued vacuum caused shell failure until the roof to shell seam finally split and released the vacuum. The OP will need to post more information. RE: Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 21 Feb 16 18:18 I will try to get more info this week about so interesting issue. RE: Colapsed Water TK chicopee (Mechanical) 21 Feb 16 21:02 Looking at the bottom upper 2 courses, the bolts indicate to me that several sheets were replaced and instead of riveting as originally done, bolts were used. RE: Colapsed Water TK LittleInch (Petroleum) 21 Feb 16 21:08 The history of this tank would be interesting. I'm wondering if the top three course were replaced or even added at some point as they show no rust streaks compared to the bottom set. Remember - More details = better answers Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it. RE: Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 21 Feb 16 21:36 One more photo. http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=75b43384-98c2-42cc-9acc-4f RE: Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 21 Feb 16 21:39 The last one. http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=79f2d792-0891-4fef-ae0b-9f RE: Colapsed Water TK LittleInch (Petroleum) 22 Feb 16 07:51 With the number of patches on the third course from the top this is leaning (pun intended) towards a corrosion failure IMO. Might have just happened or a bit of extra wind load but without any further info on operation and history it's difficult to go much further. BTW is it me our is this tank slightly conical? Remember - More details = better answers Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it. RE: Colapsed Water TK IFRs (Petroleum) 22 Feb 16 12:19 Question: is this tank located where a large snow load from a recent storm may have suddenly accumulated on top ( assuming there is a fixed cone roof on top )? RE: Colapsed Water TK nackra (Civil/Environmental) 22 Feb 16 16:32 Any photos of the roof to see the size of the vent? RE: Colapsed Water TK Joss10 (Mechanical) (OP) 22 Feb 16 16:59 No pictures of the roof yet, the TK is located in a tropical area, no problem with snow or ice.