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Using jointed plate for PQR

Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
Dear experts,

By mistake we did not read the client's requirement carefully. There is a clause: PQR for SAW must be in 4 M long plate.

We have many extra plate but non of them are 4 M long.

I am planning to joint 2 plates : 1.5 M and 2.5 M so total 4 M.

Is there any clause in ASME IX that we can not use jointed plate for PQR ? In other word, we must use full length plate for PQR.

Your comments is highly appreciated.

Syah

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

But, your test weld samples for the weld qualification will have to cross the heat affected zone, weld itself, and second heat affected zone of the joint, will they not?

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
Racookpea1978,

Yes they will. There would be T (vertical to horizontal) joint.

But for the bending , tensile and impact test we will cut the plate away from T joint.

The question is there any clause in ASME Section IX about using joined plate for PQR test coupon ?

Syah

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Syahar,
Have you really read your clients requirements correctly ?
A 4 metre PQR coupon is ridiculous !!!!!!!!

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Agree with DekDee on that point.

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
Dear all,

Yes. I did read carefully. It is true 4 (four) meter.

This is because SAW process. Other projects normally about 1 M or less.

Syah

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Quote:

This is because SAW process.

The welding process has nothing to do with the length of the test coupon. There is no good reason for that long of a coupon for any welding test.

What kind of tests are they wanting you to perform?

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
DVWE,

This is for PQR. The test will be RT, Tensile and Bending Test.

We are not in the position for argue. It is in the specs. which is part of the contract. Other process like SMAW is normal plate size i.e 2 plate of 150 mm x 300 mm. Only SAW is different.

I just need the info if there is clause in ASME Section IX that using joined plate for PQR is allowed or not allowed.

Syah

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Syah,
There is nothing in the code because nobody in their right mind would request a PQR coupon that long.
You have been posting a lot of requests on this forum and it appears you may be "a fish out of water".
Have you thought to ask the client why they require this excessive length ?
400 mm (not 4 metres) will give you sufficient material for your tensiles and bends.
RT is not even a requirement for an ASME IX PQR so your costs have gone up quite significantly if you have to perform multiple RT shots on a 4 mtr coupon,
Regards,
DD

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
Dekdee,

You are right.

I did argue with the client Welding Inspector. He agree it is very very strange. But at the end "it is in your contract specs".

Now I have to argue with client about using joined plate.

Some more, no one in my QA/QC Welding Department and Construction Department has experience about storage tank in the past.

So I am the only one and that is why "You have been posting a lot of requests on this forum and it appears you may be "a fish out of water"".

Syah



RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Quote:

I did argue with the client Welding Inspector.

That's the wrong person to 'argue' with.

You need to have a discussion with the client, specifically, the person that wrote the specification. I would bet you that it is a mistake.

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
DVWE,

We can not go that far and don't ask me why.

I do believe this client specs has been implementing in many projects in this region.

We should have been addressed this issue during pre-contract stage. But there was no one understand this issue.

Hope the Welding Inspector will have no objection with our proposal otherwise we will have BIG problem. This is not standard plate material. Order to the steel mil 1 sheet and ship to the site by airfreight will be a night mare.

SYah





RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Syah,
"We can not go that far and don't ask me why."
If you can't direct TQ's (Technical queries) or whatever you call them to the client then you are wasting our time asking questions.

"Hope the Welding Inspector will have no objection with our proposal otherwise we will have BIG problem".

It is an engineering problem and has nothing to do with the Welding Inspector - he does not have the authority to accept or reject this !!!!!!!!

Regards,
DD

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
Dekdee,

In my client company WPS, PQR and WPQT is under Welding, QA/QC Dept. So this issue will be controlled by them.

This requirement is stated in the customer standard which is something like "bible" for tank construction.

Off course I have plan to raise the TQ but I would like to discuss in verbal with the client Welding Engineer. Once he give me a green light I will make formal request i.e. TQ. But not to reduce the size just ask approval to use joined plate for PQR.

Hope they will agree.

Syah





RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

Who is doing the testing? Once you weld the 4M coupon and send 0.3M to the lab for testing, what do you do with the other 3.7M of coupon? Just curious.

RE: Using jointed plate for PQR

(OP)
Don56,

We have to provide everything including manpower, equipment/tools, testing and report.

Off course the 3.7 M coupon will be scraped or we can cut for WPQT.

In this case we are not talking commence sense or not. Usual or not. Normal practice or not. Wasting material and time or not.

What everybody said in this topic had been addressed to the client before I posted in this forum.

Like I said the client fully agree but at the end "it is in the specs and it is in the contract".

They only ask "please comply to the agreed specs and contract" which is very simple to be addressed to me.


Syah

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